fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2461 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2461 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Sjw = social justice warrior. The kind of person that pushes for a female or a black character to be shoehorned into a story solely because they're a female or a black character, to the damage of the story itself, in the name of a 'representation' not owed.

They can get pretty unnerving to witness, especially when they attack things that are dear to you or behave like hypocrites. For example, by other people's account since I don't follow that series, those that make a character black in the SnK fandom (even though said character is white) and complain that those who don't share their colouring are racists, or those who draw some character a few tones lighter are racists too.

I don't let them tarnish my view of the whole movement, btw, no worries there.

I fail to understand how making a character a minority could be to the detriment of a story when, provided the character is handled well, it should make no difference. I also fail to understand why it is a problem that minorities desire greater representation, and am curious as to why you would use the term "owed" (or scare quotes around representation, for that matter).

I try not to take "attacks" on things that are dear to me personally. I accept eloquent criticism of those works because such criticism is usually well justified. There is no such thing as a canon with no problematic elements, and if I allowed criticism to dissuade me from enjoying my fandoms I would have no fandoms left to enjoy. I acknowledge that there are problematic elements in my fandoms, but I am not the creator, and I cannot change the canon that has already been set down by the creator and publicly disseminated. I can disagree with it, but I can do nothing about it except in my fanworks.

Could you explain what you mean by "behave like hypocrites"?

Ah. As a SnK fan I can only assume you must be referring to Ymir, who (although I have not seen her depicted as black) seems to attract the most racewank. The truth is that the only character whose race is canonically given is Mikasa (who is called, somewhat vaguely, "Asian"). However, Ymir is canonically depicted with a darker skin tone than many of her peers (particularly in certain situations that are spoilers), but (as with many characters who are not pale) is often depicted as pale in fanart. Considering the history of whitewashing, I feel it's perfectly understandable that persons of color might feel uncomfortable about that and not want to associate with such people. Such a subconscious thing shows the presence of those unexamined attitudes that result in casual prejudice, and considering minorities are faced with that every day, why would it be something to which they would want to leave themselves open in their leisure time?

That's why I said shoehorned in. It's the same as that Tauriel character in the Hobbit movie. It does make a difference. It is not handled well and it tarnishes other established, beloved characters too, if you've read the book and you've learnt about Jackson's script it's pretty clear how. Which means that other than not seeing the movie, I'm going to recommend the Rankin-Bass version instead, which respects Tolkien's work much more.

I say owed because no private-owned media owes you or me anything. Minorities can desire greater representation but if a creator decides to make an all-male, all-white cast that's fine, since it's their freedom to do so and they don't owe anyone anything. Same if they decided for any other type of cast. Accusing people of being racist because they don't bend over for you does not make them racist, or any other isms, no matter how much you rant. You want something that's tailored to you, you make it yourself, especially since no one's stopping you, as you yourself said you already do with your fanworks.

I hardly saw eloquent criticism in my fandoms that was well-justified. Also re-read my own post, I described it there when they behave like hypocrites.

Actually most complaints I've seen were about some guy named Marco whose skintone looks pretty light to me. Not wanting to associate does not give them the right to attack and "casual prejudice", really? In my experience when people whine about casual prejudice they whine about not being treated special.

It has been some time since I've seen The Hobbit or read Tolkien's ouevre, so I cannot speak on that matter. However, change is an inherent aspect of adaptation. While I often fall more on the purist side of things, I find to my surprise that most changes are rarely without at least a little charm, and indeed wholly faithful adaptations can be dull even if the source material has been shifted into a completely different medium.

No, privately-owned media companies don't owe anyone anything, but it is certainly quite reasonable for minorities to be unhappy about the fact that the systemic prejudice in Western society is reflected in the fact that the overwhelming majority of media are made for wealthy able white heterosexual cismen, particularly since this reinforces ideas about what sells and thereby creates much higher barriers of entry into mainstream media for minorities who might want to make a difference without depending on others to do so for them. This is a well-documented problem across multiple media industries.

A well-justified argument does not have to be one you agree with; it simply has to be well supported. Additionally, I have reread all your posts in this thread and do not see hypocrisy addressed.

Ah. If you are of the opinion that attempting to even out a playing field that is inherently designed to disenfranchise certain groups is demanding "special treatment," it seems it is fruitless to continue this conversation. I regret that you feel this way and hope that you might someday reconsider.

If you don't know what you're talking about then inform yourself before making vapid talk.

No one is or should be forced to care. I'm glad that the Japanese don't care for the western market, their creative freedom (relative to the west, that is) is what has given the world so many beautiful, beautiful works.

The hypocrisy is addressed. They attack anyone who doesn't agree with their personal idea and makes the character white (even when, you know, the character IS white or looks so) or points out that they've made a character with light skin, black. All the while expecting people to accept their blackifying because yes. They're entitled assholes and I wish them the worst.

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