[ SECRET POST #2476 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2476 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 048 secrets from Secret Submission Post #354.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

On the surface this seems reasonable. On the other hand... I'm in a fandom with a number of canonically queer characters and pairings, and nothing is explicit enough for some people. Shown the exact same way as the straight pairings? Nope, not romantic (though the straight pairs are considered canon). Off-into-the-sunset-together ending? Just friends. Actual use of the word love? It's platonic love, obviously (which is never offered for the m/f "love"s, of course). Hell I watched one series where the two guys kissed on the mouth, and I regularly see people claim that's not enough, that friends totally do that.

So I do have to wonder how much "proof" people like you require. Wouldn't be surprised to hear a creator say "___ is gay" and have someone pull out "death of the author" to wipe it away.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, that's why I have a problem with it too. Why does a gay character have to go through a whole arc of questioning themselves, joining the local LGBT club, coming out to everyone, being described as "the gay ___" at least once an episode in order for people to accept it, but all a straight person has to do is exist?

And before anybody tells me it's because straight people are more common, that was a rhetorical question.

[(Anonymous)]

Personally I'd accept as canon proof any of the following (just examples, could be more):

-character mentions on-screen that he/she is gay/bi/lesbian/etc.
-character is shown on-screen to display something that commonly qualifies as sexual affection (a peck on the cheek or a hug is not, prolonged kissing is)
-character refers to a current/ex acquaintance as girlfriend/boyfriend/romantic partner/any other name that doesn't leave room for questioning in a way that is not a part of a joke
-character is shown to be sexually or romantically attracted to someone of the same sex in a way that is not a part of a joke

[(Anonymous)]

I think a good basis is honestly holding them to the same standards as straight relationships. My main fandom has a very particular way of expressing pairings and is very light on marriages, engagements, and explicit declarations of love. But when a same-gender couple hits all the tickboxes that the considered-canon straight ones do, I feel like it's fair to put them on the same footing.

I don't need explicit "we're an item" for a man and a woman, so I don't feel I should need it for two of the same. I won't touch creator intent, because who even knows, but that's how I treat things.

[fleshisyummy]

You made me think of Shinji and Kaworu from Evangelion. Shinji clearly has romantic feelings for Kaworu, but fanboys get pissed off if you don't think Shinji is 100% straight in spite of the fact that these same fanboys call him a "pussy" and "faggot" any chance they get.

[lynx]

And it's clear Kaworu likes him back in every damn adaptation; and one of the posters for Rebuild even likened them to Orihime and Hikoboshi.



I just don't get how can someone could be so willingly blind.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT - yeah, Shinji/Kaworu is another great example. Better yet, he's the only character who's ever been named as a love interest for Shinji. And yet those people will swear up and down that Asuka or Rei or Misato is "canon" while Kaworu is just "crazy yaoi fangirls".

[lynx]

Ooooh, wait, there's actual sauce on that - as in, was it said in an interview or something?

I mean, I know it's so canon it has ascended to heaven, but I'd love to read about Anno's actual words on this 8D

[(Anonymous)]

http://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/89861966/#q89865892
"Nagisa Kaworu The fifth Eva pilot whom Seele sent in. To Shinji, he was both the very first friend he could confide in as well as a same-sex romantic interest. On the account of his true nature as an “Angel”, he attempts to merge with the First Angel, Adam, ensconced in Nerv’s underground, to trigger Third Impact. Driven at the far end of his anguish, Shinji kills that beloved friend of his with Eva Unit-01."

[lynx]

OMFG.

I mean, I always knew in my heart it's canon. Even back in 2001 when I watched the series. But you'd not believe the happiness you've brought onto me showing me this. It's from the official guide, right? OMFG.

Thank you so much ;w; <3

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, definitely official! You're welcome; glad I can spread some happiness on the subject! It pretty much made my day when I found out.

[lynx]

O-official guide sdklfjskdl *DIES SQUEEING OF HAPPINESS LIKE THE CHEAPEST FANGIRL WHO HAS EVER FANGIRLED*

[lynx]

OH MY FUCKING GOD THIS EXACTLY HAPPENED TO ME IN THE MGS FANDOM. Not at the LJ-slash comm, of course, but the fandom at large. Fucking fanboys. MGS1 has the "riding into the sunset" thing; MGS2 has the "actual use of the love word" thing"; in MGS3 there's Word of God on one canon gay pairing, and a canon gay crush (THAT LASTED 50 FUCKING YEARS, so it doesn't even matter if they got together offscreen at least once or not); MGS4 states that the couple of 1 and 2 have been living together the last 10 years, and adopted a child together; and in MGS:PW is so fucking blatant you even have a male option for the "Dating Sim" part of the game.

And there's still people that insist that NOPE ONLY FRIENDS / THAT WAS ONLY OUT OF ~LOYALTY~ AND ~ADMIRATION~ / ZOMG BUT THAT DATE IS OPTIONAL!1!. And insist their game is the manliest thing that has ever manned, and call the bishounen of the series a fag... despite being the only one with actual proved heterosexuality.

TL;DR: I'm agreeing with you so hard.

PS: They're people that pulled out Death of the Author on Rowling saying Dumbledore is gay and had a canon onesided crush for his best friend that got him manipulated into despair-inducing events and life-lasting singleness. "Nope, it's not actually spelled out on the book, so it doesn't count!1!". Give me a break /)_-

[elaminator]

MGS fans that deny the gay confuse and amuse me. I just figure they're in deep, deep denial because I have trouble believing ANYONE could not catch at least some of the subtext (or actual text). It always makes me chuckle when someone pops up saying, “Uh, how did you miss these things?!"

[lynx]

It used to amuse me too (specially when it was ruthlessly mocked it in CAPSLOCKS_MGS), but since LJ has died down I've been tending to lurk in horrible places on the internet to get my fix on analysis/discussion/hype and I've seen so much stupidity I'm a worn-out soldier at this point.

[(Anonymous)]

ugh, yes, i've seen this happen in one of my fandoms. there's a contingent of the fandom that swears up and down that one of the male characters can't possibly be gay despite 1) showing no interest in women at any point during the canon but being very, very clingy to another male character, 2) outright saying "that's what i love most about him" in reference to that male character, and 3) having the female love interest of the other male character say that she understands how he feels because she feels the same way.

yet there are still some people who stick their fingers in their ears and go "LA LA LA THERE'S NO WAY HE'S GAY" just because canon never comes out and explicitly says that he is. (note that this canon is also an installment in a series that has never been shy about implying or joking about same-sex crushes before.)

[(Anonymous)]

Out of curiosity, what fandom is this?

[(Anonymous)]

clonechild got it right, it's tales of graces.

[lynx]

I'd bet good money that you're talking about BBC Sherlock's Watson, and the "female love interest" would be Irene.

(Irene being reduced to "female love interest" in all those adaptations makes me lose my goddamn mind. In ACD canon, Sherlock admired her as the only person that ever outsmarted him, they didn't even interact, and Irene leaves to marry her lawyer. So, WTF?)

I'm not in the fandom, so I can't really say I ship them. But I still can say at least there's one-sided interest on Watson's part. IDK about Sherlock.

[(Anonymous)]

If it is BBC Watson they're referring to, they've conveniently forgotton Watson's canon girlfriend who was around for an episode or two.

[lynx]

Watson had a girlfriend on that season? I don't follow the show, but you know how one learns things by osmosis gif sets...

Then again I might be wrong. My memory is a mess :(

[(Anonymous)]

actually no, it's tales of graces, but i can't say i'm all that surprised to hear that there's another fandom out there where something similar happens.

[clonechild]

Tales of Graces, right?

[(Anonymous)]

correct! i'm constantly amazed by how vehemently against the idea of richard being gay some people are. what does it matter if he is? he doesn't end up with anyone in canon so it's not even like it'd be going against anything.

i'll be the first one to say that i don't ship lloyd/zelos, guy/luke, yuri/flynn or any of the other common slash pairs from the series, but damn i could not miss the subtext there. hell, even my boyfriend (who is most assuredly not a slash fan) was convinced that richard was in love with asbel.