fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2478 ]

[ SECRET POST #2478 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2478 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[rune factory 4]

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03.

[Law & Order]

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04.

[Wander Over Yonder]

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05.

[Breaking Bad]

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06.

[Transformers: IDW Generation One]

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07.

(Panic! at the Disco)

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08.

[Luke Evans as Bard the Bowman in "The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug"]

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09.

[league of legends pro teams - team curse]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 027 secrets from Secret Submission Post #354.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I'm the anon who described a potential character bio yesterday and asked what people thought. I didn't explain why, because I was looking for general answers, but now I can talk a bit more about it.

It's interesting how people commented on the lack of personality info. I assumed it would be inherent in the description: intelligent, dedicated, energetic, charitable, friendly, outgoing, and kind. But I'll make a note that describing one's life doesn't automatically show what they're like as a person.

I considered asking whether it would be any different if "she" were a "he" instead, but I feel very strongly that it shouldn't, and that if a Mary Sue is rewritten as a male, and there is otherwise no difference, then he is unquestionably a Gary Stu; so I went the path of least complication.

As far as the depiction of ADD goes, that is what bothers me the most, and what spurred me to make the thread. "She" is my brother. He has been officially diagnosed. Even prior to getting medication, he still managed to pull off the previously described lifestyle. He would get hyper, and forget what he was doing when asked to do a chore, which drove our parents crazy, but otherwise he was largely unaffected. And one day I found myself thinking, "jeez, it's like the way Suethors write 'flaws' that barely matter..."

I've been frustrated for a long time about him being "perfect" (especially since I'm the older one), but I know that my definition of an overly idealized character is less forgiving than many others, and I wanted to know if you seasoned fandom people would see what I see. So thank you for your thoughts. I hope I don't come off as whiny or anything. I just sort of wanted to know if my impression of him was skewed because of the inherent comparison of being his sibling. I tried not to exaggerate, but I'm sure I left room for misinterpretation, because I'm not terrific at phrasing.

(Some hours after posting the thread, I realized I was potentially inviting people to hate on him, which wasn't my goal at all, and I feel kind of bad about it...but it's not like I don't openly vent about the exact same thing, so I guess I shouldn't feel bad? I dunno.)

All you really did was describe things that they did - that says nothing about their thoughts or feelings towards anything, tbh. [And, for the record, yes - for me it would have been the same regardless of gender.]

Also, as much as you may not like this being pointed out, it's possible that just because something looks a certain way to you [in this case your brother being perfect, or not being affected by any of it] doesn't inherently follow that's the case. Just that he may not discuss it around you/makes an effort to hide it for whatever reason.

Now, obviously, you know the situation better...but I'd still suggest considering it - particularly where the ADD is concerned.

In light of this, I'd like to register my amusement at the fact that there were people calling the character unrealistic or saying that X didn't work that way. Not laughing at anyone, just at the situation. :P

Possibly meaningless since I didn't say anything yesterday, but I thought for sure that OP was going to say "this is me".

But a lot of people also said "she sounds like somebody could be like in RL, but as a character, she would be OTT" - and I still agree. A lot of crazy things happen IRL which, when written down, would sound incredibly contrived.

If you're actually thinking of basing a character on him, I suggest not copying him exactly. Characters are different from real people in that they are actually representative of something broader, some kind of philosophical idea, and that everything they do must serve the plot, like a puzzle piece. Which is why asking us to analyze a character that is actually a person, well, got you the response it did. We were imagining this in terms of how it would read in a story.

(reply from suspended user)

DA

True, but being able to relate to a main character is pretty key no matter what you're writing - with the exception of maybe biography. From what the OP says, it sounds like they can't really relate to their brother in way that would make for well written character, much less actually write it that way.

(reply from suspended user)

Now that part may be related to siblinghood skewing their impressions; I don't have quite the same degree of frustration as OP in my relationship with my sister, but I know I'd really struggle to write her as a character. Spending that much of your life with someone can make it hard to get a neutral 'outside' perspective on them.

But you do realize there is a difference between reality and appearance. And reality vs your perception of your brother. You are not in his brain and so cannot really say if ADHD has never really affected him. It's never affected *you*, which is not the same thing.

'Reality is unrealistic'.

The standards for what sounds plausible are relaxed in some ways when it comes to fictional works, but a good deal tighter in others. (And I've found that this is often doubly so when it comes to disability. I'm somewhat like your brother in that mine hasn't really had much of an effect on my academics up until the last year or so of grad school- I feel the impacts more in other arenas. But if someone tried to write me as a book character, they'd probably get chewed out for 'not doing their research' since I don't look like a stereotype or have literally every single possible symptom. Bleh.)

Additionally, Sue/Stu tests are often a more than a bit skewed towards the bland and unspectacular- perfect when you're trying to write a background character or someone to interact with the canon characters without overshadowing them, but somewhat so for RP characters or for the protagonists of an original piece. They're not an appropriate metric to apply to either canon characters (many, if not most, protags will fail) or to real people.

A list of activities does not a personality describe. I was as busy as your brother in high school (and actually did most of the same things as him, except marching band and swimming instead of marathon running - my best friend was the runner) and I KNOW my motivations weren't on your list or even implied in your original set up. Most of my friends were that busy, in fact, and their various motivations weren't on the list either.

Knowing the wider context for the ADD bit, however, I actually feel really sad for your brother. And no, knowing that he's a person and not a collection of hobbies tossed on a page, I don't see what you see. What's unforgivably perfect in a character is often true in humans. The difference is that stories/characters have to make sense and people don't. Also, a lot of how a character is perceived comes down to how they're written and your summary of your brother's life did him no favors.

But let's focus on you for a moment. Your brother isn't perfect and it's unrealistic of you to assume that it all comes so easily to him. Rather than seething over his "perfection", do something that'll make you feel good about yourself. When you're happier and more content in yourself, you'll waste less time comparing yourself to your brother and feeling like you've come up short. You're every bit as unique as he is... you just have different strengths. Find your own strengths, discover your own hobbies, and make yourself happy. (And be grateful that he's so insufferably happy now. The alternative is pretty horrible.)

Such is the power of statistics. Real life is inherently realistic; it doesn't have the burden of implausibility. Fiction has to be believable if you want people to enjoy it. Everything in fiction is there for a specific purpose, and real life doesn't work like that. Things just happen in life. That's not to say that this person is an impossible character, simply improbable.

Just as is real life; you're brother is very capable, but he is unlikely in that regard. Most people can't do all that, even without a disorder like ADD, even if it's mild like it sounds from your descriptions. It's alright to feel jealous of or frustrated with him - hell, I'm a bit jealous. Overachievers make those of us who are not feel jealous. As long as you don't start resenting him, a bit of jealousy doesn't make you mean or anything; it makes you normal.

And in terms of character, I wouldn't automatically hate the character. It all depends on presentation. There are plenty of 'Ace' type characters I like. They just have the right story behind them.

I can get you being frustrated with your successful younger brother. Can't say it hasn't happened to me, I'm a dropout mess and my little bro has always seemed so happy, so friendly, intelligent and capable...

And suddenly we talk (you know, like siblings ought to do), and I realize there's so much depth to him and what he feels and thinks than you could gleam if you only think in terms of achievements. People are so complex.

Your bro is not "perfect". He does has flaws, for he is human, and probably also has a rich interior life. The way you presented him, so superficially, just tells me you're plainly refusing to dig deeper.

You're not inside his brain. How do you know if his ADD "leaves him unaffected"? Maybe it frustrates him to no end! You're not with him 24/7 either; so maybe he does all those activities, and is also intelligent, dedicated, energetic and charitable and all that you listed; but there are things that cause him pain, little daily things that affect him greatly, or motivations you don't know about, or maybe sometimes he just feels so very tired! But believe me: he won't tell you if this is the kind of attitude you project towards him.

IDK if you remember my answer from yesterday, but even knowing now he's a real person and not a character you're trying to improve on: Yes, it is possible to be all those things, but not without any consequences. The fault in you both sucking at communicating with each other lies in both, because it takes two to tango. But since your brother doesn't post here and you do, and a lot of the issues seem to stem from your jealousy of his percieved "perfection", I'd say it's you who should make the first step in reaching out to him.

"It's interesting how people commented on the lack of personality info. I assumed it would be inherent in the description: intelligent, dedicated, energetic, charitable, friendly, outgoing, and kind. But I'll make a note that describing one's life doesn't automatically show what they're like as a person."

Yep. All the things you listed are informative, but only a limited extent. It reads like a checklist, and it doesn't give you the whole picture or a personality. Say you're looking to buy a house and someone tells you that it's got three bedrooms, two bathrooms, an eat-in kitchen, lots of closet space, an unfinished basement and a two car garage. Do you feel like you know this house based on that info alone? Or does it maybe sound like a generally positive but really generic description that only gives you a superficial idea of what to expect? It's the same for your character description.

As for it being based on your brother, I kind of suspected that's what you were doing. I'm still sort of skeptical about how realistic it is. Now, I'm fully down with the idea that this is what your brother looks like on the surface, but I have a really difficult time believing that there's nothing more to him that might mar the appearance of perfection. I'd bet good money that he's got a lot more insecurities and doubts than you or others might realize and he might even be surprised to find out that your perception of him makes him sound relatively flawless.

So when I wrote "the too-perfect-and-good-to-be-true caracter [i.e. your brother] the more plain, less successful main character [i.e. you] might be envious of.", I was basically right?

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[ SECRET POST #2478 ]

"Poll" - the follow-up

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