fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2479 ]

[ SECRET POST #2479 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2479 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 018 secrets from Secret Submission Post #354.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I'm not demanding anything, and I've said ad nauseam that the only reason I'm still here debating at 3 am is that I'd like to have my point acknowledged, and only that. I'm not forcing the people of the USA to change the way they refer to themselves. My closing line for the first (or second?) post I did: "your view is valid, but so is mine. It's ok. Just please, don't ask of us to call you American in that way"

I've traveled the world too. And upwards there was an anon hailing from Central Europe that did say that there, in scholarly debates, the term "US-American" is used. Not just "American".

And having a debate about issues upon which we disagree changes this why, exactly?

Because I have good memories of those times, but now you've resorted to calling me a "cultural imperialist" just for disagreeing with you, and you're showing yourself as a painfully closed-minded individual that can't phathom the reason we Latin Americans + Caribbeans feel badly about this issue. You say it's all about linguistics (and it isn't), and political resentment (it isn't either). It's about cultural heritage and identity.

Most of us, from the paler Latino to the darkest, have mixed ancestry; and I'm not talking about blonde-caucasian-on-brunet-caucasian. Race is complicated, and we were deprived of our roots for centuries. But we all feel a sense of kinship on a basic level, no matter how we fight between us: We had indigenous ancesters that got enslaved and genocided, but also mixed their genes with the white Conquistadores, and black slaves brought from Africa. We're "Mestizos" ("mongrels"). We were colonized, had a religion imposed onto us, and got our liberty after. I doubt you know about this, but one of the most important things out of everything the Independency Wars gave us was that sense of kinship: "We may not know who the fuck we are, but we are brothers, and we'll help each other setting free the rest of America". Do you know about Simón Bolívar, by any chance? Read about him.

I'm not demanding anything

don't ask of us to call you American in that way

You're demanding the right not to call people from a given nation by the name they want to be called, because it has some other meaning to you. I've also said repeatedly that no one can force you do that, but please, please don't pretend that that's not grossly inconsiderate. If someone made up a different name for people from your country (a name that sounds ridiculous when spoken out loud, to boot) and started using that regardless of how you felt, how would you take that?

now you've resorted to calling me a "cultural imperialist"

I said that demanding someone use the name your culture uses for them instead of the one they've adopted for themselves in their cultural was culturally imperialistic. How is it not? But I addressed this in the other post below; let's take it there.

political resentment (it isn't either)

You just made a huge post detailing the political ramifications of American actions in South America and how this "justifies" the resentment you hold towards American nationalism and now it's magically apolitical?

linguistics (and it isn't)

Linguistics is also a huge part of it, though. English doesn't work the way Spanish does, or "USian" wouldn't be so incredibly awkward and unnatural.

It's about cultural heritage and identity.

Fine! That's cool. Call yourselves what you want. It'd be nice if you called Americans what they want to be called, too, and I'm certainly going to keep doing that, but like I said - no one can stop you. It would also be nice if refrained from calling Canadians a term they don't want to be called - but again, no one can stop you. You decide what's more important to you: your identity, or theirs. Your cultural heritage, or theirs. And.... well, you've decided.

I'm sorry you feel you need to respect me less because I don't share your view on this, but I will definitely read what you've suggested and reconsider the issue as you've presented it.

Thank you for all you've said on this. You've articulated it much better than I could have. (anon from earlier in this thread)

Hi! I see that you've had a gap in your English lessons at some point, so let me say:

You're taking false friends too seriously. The English term for "citizen of the United States of America" is American. It doesn't translate into the deceptively similar sounding americano in Spanish. That would translate, into English, South or Central America.

It can be confusing, but you're basically taking offense because the two languages have similar sounding terms.

The French word for request is "demande".

But if you "demand" something of an English-speaker, that's quite rude, no?

However, the English person taking offense might be understandably upset, and the French speaker made an understandable mistake, but the English speaker would never dream of trying to substitute a different, nonsensical word into the language to change that language to his or her preferences. That would be incredibly rude and inconsiderate, as well as kind of unintelligent, as they seemed to have missed the fact that they are listening to a totally different language.

Don't take assumptions about me. My English is self-taught, yet I've constantly scored as proffessional-level Bilingual in all the certifications made available by the Chilean State, partnered with the University of Cambridge.

When series and movies get dubbed? Despite the overwhelming majority of people who use the word "Estadounidense"? The dubs always say "Americano". It's a technical reason, mostly, so the lip-synching fits, but it's still grating.

For the rest of what you've said... *sigh * You really can't grasp that the way our school system educates us tells us that America is a one single continent, and anyone who lives in said continent has an equal right to be "Americano"? Go take a look at the Spanish wiki on the "América" article (apply google translate, it will mangle the page but you might still get the gist of it.)

Even more, most of the time, people from the US don't say US or USA. They say America. As if their portion of America was the only one that mattered. Maybe you really don't mean any harm by it, but for us it is erasure.

What they're saying is that you have every right to "Americano". Americans have every right to "American". Just like "demande"/"demand" they're false cognates. They seem like they should mean the same thing in both languages, but they don't.

I said there was a gap in your teaching, not that you couldn't speak it. You speak it quite well. But somewhere along the way, you missed the concept of "false friends". When two words from two different languages sound quite alike but don't mean the same thing (even if they mean similar things). That's what I meant about demande/demand. They obviously sound identical to each other, and might be a source of confusion, and might even seem pretty implausible to not actually mean the same thing, but...well, they don't.

When series and movies get dubbed? Despite the overwhelming majority of people who use the word "Estadounidense"? The dubs always say "Americano". It's a technical reason, mostly, so the lip-synching fits, but it's still grating.

Shame on the translators, then!

You really can't grasp that the way our school system educates us tells us that America is a one single continent, and anyone who lives in said continent has an equal right to be "Americano"?

I do grasp that. What you don't grasp (I'll say this in caps, not because I'm yelling, but because it's the focal point, and I want to stress it, so please don't be mad!):

AMERICANO does NOT mean AMERICAN.

Of course you have a right to Americano! That's the word that is properly used--IN YOUR LANGUAGE. In ENGLISH, American is used ONLY for those from the United States!

No one is taking "Americano" from you--you're simply not grasping that Americano does NOT translate into American! It translate into "citizen of the Americas!" i.e., North, Central, or South American. Yes, it's a bit more cumbersome as a word, but most of the rest of the world thinks of the three areas as being fairly separate.

Even more, most of the time, people from the US don't say US or USA. They say America. As if their portion of America was the only one that mattered. Maybe you really don't mean any harm by it, but for us it is erasure.

But it's not because American doesn't mean Americano. They are two different words.

Again, this would like with you steadfastly refusing to accept that the French are not "demanding" anything of you, they "demande" ('request') something of you! It doesn't matter how similar the two words are, because they mean two different things!

I was getting some much needed sleep and the notification for this woke me up. Now I'm insomniac AND annoyed.

I've seen you spam this useless piece of trivia on other comments and didn't say anything, but now:

1) you're missing the point. You're so far away from the point the two of you may as well exist in different dimensions.

2) DO NOT SPEAK OF WHAT A SPANISH WORD MEANS OR DOESN'T IF YOU DON'T SPEAK SPANISH, MOTHERFUCKER. You think I don't know about "false friends"?? My god, you're such a patronizing asshole!

'Ta. *goes back to sleep*

Edited 2013-10-18 06:38 (UTC)

I tried being civil, but apparently the language barrier is so great between us you can't speak English without resorting to swearing, so I'll speak the version you understand.

1) you're missing the point. You're so far away from the point the two of you may as well exist in different dimensions.

I understand perfectly. You're just incapable of coming up with a concrete argument, so swearing had to suffice where logic could not.

2) DO NOT SPEAK OF WHAT A SPANISH WORD MEANS OR DOESN'T IF YOU DON'T SPEAK SPANISH, MOTHERFUCKER. You think I don't know about "false friends"?? My god, you're such a patronizing asshole!

Tell me, when you use the word "Americano", does it mean "citizen of the US" or "person from the Americas"? If it means the latter, then I am right, and no amount of getting pissy about things is going to change that, ever. If it DOES NOT MEAN American, then you simply ARE SPEAKING MY LANGUAGE INCORRECTLY.

So you want to talk about patronizing? How about some ignorant asshole like yourself trying to take control of MY language and MY cultural identity because you're too damn stupid to understand what the fuck a false friend is, eh?

I'm a civil amd polite person perfrectly capable of doing a debate without using curse words, but you don't seem to understand how patronizing you are, and how rude. And you have the gall to act all surprised when I react with anger? You continue to be rude, and I'd be in my right to tell you to fuck off, but okay: let's settle this.

http://i.word.com/idictionary/american <- Merriam Webster definition, with history of the usage of the word included.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/American?q=american

And here's Oxford, you know, the older, better-established, more respected, and larger dictionary?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans

And here's Wikipedia, where searching "American" brings up the US citizen, and nothing else.

This just tells me you know nothing about etymology.

And well, since you're insisting on bringing out Wikipedia, which is most notably a souce made up of a collaborating effort of Internet denizens, here's the page for "American" as a word, in English:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_(word)

Yeah...that just says that it means citizen of the US, but some people didn't really get the memo.

So, too bad, so sad.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2479 ]

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