fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2483 ]

[ SECRET POST #2483 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2483 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 054 secrets from Secret Submission Post #355.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

if they drown out lgbt voices then yes, it is harmful. the "straight allies" people look down on are not allies in general, not people who express acceptance of us without butting in. the "allies" people look down on are those that more or less wedge themselves into the lgbt community for personal gains, be that feeling "left out" of a movement not tailored exclusively for them (god forbid) or wanting to play hero or whatever. those people are the whiny ones, the ones that don't get why "straight allies" are hated because they don't get the difference between being supportive and being intrusive.

Do a large proportion of people really do this though?

I find it hard to believe that it's really a big enough number to start painting all allies with the same brush.

And of course maybe your experiences =/= others etc etc.

Might also depend on where you are and what your perspective is...

if lgbt people are angry at allies in general for permitting the behaviour of a few allies then rather than defending yourself as an ally you should instead call out the shitty allies that are making us so uncomfortable.

We are mot a monolith and you're beimg far more harmful than an ally I've ever seen.

you're welcome to disagree with me but exaggerating in the most melodramatic way possible doesn't make your comment believable in the least. as a queer trans person i have personally seen every demographic within the lgbtqa umbrella express at least some degree of disdain for obnoxious, self-absorbed "straight allies." perhaps your experiences have led you to other observations, but i am speaking from what i know. fuck off.

I'm queer and I think you're the one being melodramatic here.

idc

If I saw someone being shitty like that I would call them out. How is that mutually exclusive with "defending yourself as an ally"? Though I didn't realize that's what I'm apparently doing here...I wasn't talking about myself at all.

general "you."

i mean if you see some allies being shitty and then see people upset and generalising allies because of it, you shouldn't focus on defending allies ("we're not all like that"); rather than that, call out the bullshit you see. it's well established that not literally all allies are shitty. i'm just seeing a lot of defense of allies here when nobody has outright stated that no allies are welcome to them. so it sounds like people are trying to defend the shitty ones, since those are the ones people are taking issue with.

People aren't trying to defend the shitty ones. I think it's very similar to you saying that you're not trying to shit on the decent ones, but it kind of sounded like you were in your first few comments. I get that you weren't. I think both sides are being a bit reactionary.

I do think it's alienating to rant about how awful allies are and basically insinuate that you'd like them to tolerate you, and then "know their place" and sit down and shut up/fuck off. No, allies do NOT have a right to speak over you, and they certainly don't deserve asspats or to make it all about them, but if the end goal is a world of equality and tolerance, I don't think promoting divisiveness is productive. If you'd rather they just fuck off and not speak up ever on your behalf, you're going to find it much harder to attain equality, and it also kind of sounds like you're unconsciously making an excuse to hate/mistrust anyone who isn't like you.

i would not like them to "tolerate" me, i want them to accept lgbt people as people. tolerance is a different concept entirely and does not imply agreement more than it implies a lack of will to object.

i am not promoting divisiveness. allies are welcome provided they do not speak over lgbt voices or laud theirs as more important. example: a straight ally saying they got bullied one time in fifth grade because the bully thought he was gay. that's an issue but it literally had no other repercussions for the straight ally, so drowning out lgbt voices - voices that live with that shit literally every day - because of one bad time you had as a kid makes the issue about you, when it's not about you at all. this kind of thing happens so frequently now, where straight cis people try to relate our issues to their own, and it's not necessary. so again, i welcome allies. they're a product of our cause, which is acceptance. the more allies there are compared to bigots the more likely we are to gain proper rights in the future. but there is NO NEED to co-opt lgbt issues in order to feel "included" in them.

as for your last comment - you're not my psychologist so don't assume. maybe i haven't made it clear: i am queer and trans. people who aren't like me are always a threat unless i have reason to believe otherwise, and that has KEPT ME SAFE. so yeah i inherently mistrust the straight cis man, i don't need an excuse for that. unfortunately in this society and in my location, my trust has to be gained. that doesn't mean i hate straight cis ppl or mistreat them, it just means i'm looking out for myself before i open up to them. that's a necessity.

Edited 2013-10-22 18:36 (UTC)

Ok, fair enough on the mistrust thing. I'll reserve judgment on that since I'm not in your shoes.

Sorry about the unclear wording with "tolerate". What I meant was basically what you said - accept LGBT people as people. I'm not sure what you mean by "agreement"; there isn't really anything to agree with, is there? Unless you mean "agree that the way I am is an ok way to be", which again is basically what I meant, so yeah.

I haven't really seen anyone with a story like the example you gave. I can see some ways in which that story could be presented to demonstrate that the person had gained some perspective, without making it all about them, but I gather that's now what's been done in your experience.

That brings me back to my original question, though: is that really frequent? It's an honest question; everyone's experience varies. In your experience, is it a frequent issue? Is it a high proportion of people who call themselves allies?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2483 ]

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