[ SECRET POST #2486 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2486 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 024 secrets from Secret Submission Post #355.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

OP- I have less interest in this, especially if it was in the constraints of a normal school model. I'd be more willing if it was normal kids in alternative schooling systems. Still, my specific interest goes to gifted kids, though people with learning disabilities also have some of my interest. It's not that there's anything wrong with normal kids, it's just that some groups really need that special attention, and it's awesome to actually see them flourish.

[(Anonymous)]

your last line strikes me as kind of strange, because "it's just that some groups really need that special attention, and it's awesome to actually see them flourish" is something i would expect more from someone who works with/would work with disadvantaged students. honestly i've heard similar sentiment from my mom who currently works in a juvenile detention center, so maybe that's why.

as a kid who was considered gifted (for a time. then i guess i got stupid again LOL.) i suppose i just don't see what's so special about us :p

[chardmonster]

...normal kids don't need special attention?

I understand you having specific interests, I do. However that just isn't how teaching works. You might get to teach gifted kids! And you'll also get to teach other kids. You'll have to, in fact. You don't get to be That Guy From Dead Poets' Society.

As a gifted kid, who was among other gifted kids--sorry, dude, we actually needed less attention. We didn't have problems with math and could read just fine. We got through the material. I'm very happy I was able to take AP classes but it would have been awesome if someone had devoted some resources to the kids who were actually in danger of getting bored to death, who needed encouragement to move forward, instead of having us read Faulkner while the rest of the school went to shit.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think it's fair or accurate to say that gifted kids need less attention. I was a gifted kid, and even in the upper-level classes my schools provided, I wasn't challenged. I never had to "study" -- I just paid attention in class and maybe looked over my notes once or twice before a test. I was able to get by (and do well) on sheer brainpower, and so I never learned how to tackle challenging material, or work at a problem until I "got" it. Needless to say, about halfway through college, when I was hitting more difficult material and I could no longer coast (not that I thought I'd been coasting until then, because I never learned any other way), I hit a wall academically. I would've been a lot better off if there had been a more intensive gifted program in my earlier years that had challenged me enough to give me the opportunity to learn to handle material that was "hard."

It sounds like that's what OP wants to do. I know US school systems generally aren't set up to accommodate that, but I know firsthand that it's something that needs doing, so good on them. School is about more than just "getting through the material" - it's about learning how to learn. Or it should be. "Normal" kids are able to do that with the standard curriculum, for the most part, but gifted kids DO need special attention in order to get the same result.

[(Anonymous)]

This is kind of me, too. I definitely feel like there was a point in time where I was advanced enough over everybody else to miss out on some crucial learning things, but...then I stayed there and they all moved ahead and past me.

[chardmonster]

I guess it's a matter of perspective. What's worse?

A) Having an easy time, not being challenged

B) Having a B or C average, getting stuck in normal classes with teachers who expect fuckall from you and don't really care, believing yourself to be stupid

You hit a wall in college--to which a lot of kids never get to go. A lot of this is because they learn to hate school.

[(Anonymous)]

I guess I just don't see the point in playing "what's worse?" when someone is talking about wanting to do something that helps people. Some people donate to PBS rather than cancer research because that's what they're most motivated by, not because kids not being able to see Sesame Street is worse than cancer. You could criticize someone for being passionate about helping Group A when Group B has a greater "objective need" -- or you could be glad that the person wants to help anybody in the first place. And since it's not as though gifted kids don't need any help at all, their efforts wouldn't be wasted, even if you don't personally think that's where their attention would best be used.

[chardmonster]

or you could be glad that the person wants to help anybody in the first place.

...but they aren't even helping anyone. They're posting on fandom secrets about liking the idea of helping someone. That's about as helpful as hitting like on a facebook page. No offense to OP, it's just a fandom secret.

Also--you can't really compare cancer research and PBS. The OP is talking about having liked the idea of teaching, but only in a relatively glamorous job. They are comparing teaching to teaching.

It's exhausting. I see this attitude all the time. As soon as a kid is difficult the education students suddenly forget all they said about wanting to be nurturing.

This is like someone saying "I want to be a plastic surgeon, but I only want to work giving women breast enlargements, never mastectomy cases" and you jump in saying "but at least they want to help some of the boobs!"

[(Anonymous)]

...but they aren't even helping anyone. They're posting on fandom secrets about liking the idea of helping someone.

If we're not treating this secret as something the OP actually might attempt to do in the future, then what's the point of criticizing the sentiment? At that point, you're not even saying, "How dare you expend your future efforts toward a goal that I don't think is worthwhile" -- you're saying, "How dare you idly wish you had expended your hypothetical efforts toward a goal I don't think is worthwhile." That would be pretty much the height of useless complaining, so I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you weren't doing it.

Also--you can't really compare cancer research and PBS. The OP is talking about having liked the idea of teaching, but only in a relatively glamorous job. They are comparing teaching to teaching.

Yes, they were comparing teaching to teaching, just like I was comparing charitable giving to charitable giving. The point of the analogy is that both kinds (of teaching, and of charitable giving) are worthwhile, even though you seem to think that one kind (of teaching, at least) was more deserving and more virtuous.

You read the OP's sentiments as saying they wanted the easy, glamorous form of teaching; I read them as seeing a particular need they wanted to respond to -- one that you appeared to think was completely unnecessary. My point is that it's not unnecessary, that gifted kids do need special attention and effort from teachers.

I'm not denying that teaching gifted students carries more prestige for teachers, and can be less frustrating and unpleasant than trying to bring kids up to grade level and motivate them to learn in the first place. I'm saying that gifted education is also an important thing to have for the sake of the kids who would benefit from it. It's not just "teaching on easy mode" for tenured instructors. If it is, they're doing it wrong.

[diet_poison]

r u me? o.O

[lunabee34]

It depends, though, on how the school where OP teaches is set up. My daughter's school has dedicated gifted teachers who only teach gifted students.

[chardmonster]

True! I guess what I mean is that very few start there.

[(Anonymous)]

Gifted kids ABSOLUTELY need to be challenged. The other anon who replied to your comment is spot-on.

If gifted kids are not stimulated enough, they'll hit a wall and never reach their full potential. As a gifted student, I was NEVER challenged in school. I just coasted along getting As with barely any real effort. I was never truly intellectually stimulated, and I was never taught to work hard. I never needed to. As a result, I've developed a lazy personality and have serious motivation issues, which are preventing me from achieving things and reaching my full potential.

When a child shows extraordinary ability, it must be nurtured and encouraged, not just left alone and ignored because the kid is already getting As. That is a surefire way to waste a child's potential.

[chardmonster]

My argument is that they need less attention than kids who are struggling.

As a result, I've developed a lazy personality and have serious motivation issues, which are preventing me from achieving things and reaching my full potential.

I'm not sure you can blame this on not being given the snowflake treatment all the way through school.

da

[(Anonymous)]

What else would have caused it? Getting an easy ride is murder on your motivation when you come up against something hard.

And honestly, every child, gifted, challenged or otherwise, needs the same amount of attention to fully get to their potential.

Do choices have to be made regarding priorities which ought to favour those with intellectual disabilities? Sure. But that's only because it's harder for those with intellectual disabilities to cope with life after school.

If that's your point, then well, I wish you were clearer about it.

Re: da

[chardmonster]

What else would have caused it? Getting an easy ride is murder on your motivation when you come up against something hard.

I don't know, man. I'm assuming you hit a motivation block after school, when you were fully capable of taking care of yourself.

Then again, blaming your teachers in high school is a really smart coping mechanism. It's not your fault you aren't living up to your potential! Mrs. McMulty gave you too many easy math worksheets! FUCK YOU MRS MCMULTY YOU ARE WHY I AM NOT MAKING IT

[(Anonymous)]

If you needed less attention, then you weren't gifted, sry2say, just clever. And I speak as a "clever but not gifted" person myself.

BIG difference. The gifted child is so many deviations away from the mean that they are like a child with an LD at the other end. So outside the norm that they need a different kind of treatment

[chardmonster]

...wow. You have a markedly different definition of "gifted" than most schools, then.

Unless you're that one gifted kid with motivation issues who trucks this out once in awhile to tell the other A students that you're smarter than them.

What fantasy world do you intend to move to

[insanenoodlyguy]

... because that's what you'd fucking need.

You think you are going to just get a teaching job teaching the best of the best, which is probably some elite private school in some neighboorhood where most teachers entire paychecks for the month won't clear the house payment alone?

Yeah. Cause your that special one that will graduate the top of your class with a book on a new revolutionary teaching method already published and go right to the elite schools.

No jackass. Let me tell you what your life is. Your life is adjunct and sub positions for a bare minimum of 2 years, and at least a stint in a behavioral or special ed classroom. Then, when you are lucky enough to get a job, you will take it and be glad for it. Then, and only fucking then should you start thinking about teaching gifted anything.

Re: What fantasy world do you intend to move to

[chardmonster]

On top of this--the kids in the nicer school? Not necessarily gifted. They're just less likely to have problems* and have parents pushing them. They might be writing perfectly adequate five paragraph essays with approximately no content.

I know because I get a lot of these kids in freshman college courses I TA. Perfectly adequate. Only that. Not gifted at all.

The one or two gifted kids in the class full of kids who can barely read, in the poorly funded school with problems? They need you. And so do the other kids.


*THE PRIVATE SCHOOL CAN EXPEL KIDS WITH PROBLEMS. The public school in the suburb is more likely to have parents who can afford outside tutoring/therapy.

Re: What fantasy world do you intend to move to

[volta_arovet]

Or you could get a math or hard science teaching degree and get a job pretty damn quick. :D

Re: What fantasy world do you intend to move to

[insanenoodlyguy]

With the "gifted" children. Righhhttt.

Re: What fantasy world do you intend to move to

[(Anonymous)]

Half of even the gifted kids will probably have an irrational math phobia.

Re: What fantasy world do you intend to move to

[volta_arovet]

Hey, I managed it! :D

(Well, Honors and Std Physics, which has a pretty high percentage of the gifted kids, though honestly, I think my standard-level class is more fun a lot of the time)