fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2503 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2503 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I haaaaaaaaaaate hate hate the fanon that Captain Kirk is an idiot. Even if we are talking new movies, he's still a genius.

But, in TOS, yeah. It's mentioned that he was (paraphrasing) a walking stack of books in school. So, not only was he very smart, but he was very studious.

Also, I hate the "Kirk is a womanizer" fanon so, so much. TOS Kirk is extremely respectful of women. I hate what new Trek did to his character in that regard.

Kirk has been perceived as being a womanizer for a long time, though. That's the impression I absorbed from popular culture ~15 years ago.

Kirk has been perceived as a womanizer way before nu!Trek. He does get a lot of action, but he was never casual about it, mostly because the plot is always "oh, he HAS to sex up this woman because of plot point X." It was usually mind-control or ulterior motive to save the day and whatnot. And if not, it was the result of a serious romantic attraction. However, I can believe, due to his lack of awkwardness or nervousness when said sexing up occurred (which was not as common as pop culture would have people believe) that it's likely he did have a good amount of experience. That experience not necessarily being all casual, of course.

But...I've got to say...I kinda take issue with your phrasing? It's perfectly possible to be a womanizer in the sense of having lots of short-term casual physical relationships or one-night-stands, and be respectful of women at the same time. Especially in the Trekverse 23rd century. Women are not all universally hoping that every guy who fucks them will marry them and give them babies and the only way to get them to have sex is to trick them and lie to them and knowingly thwart their obvious wishes. Not that that's what you meant, I'm certain, just that that's what juxtaposing "womanizer" and "respects women" kinda sounds like.

I know the definition of womanizer is just someone who engages in lots of casual sex with women, but the word also carries connotation that that person is dismissive of women and possibly misogynistic. That's usually the way it's used. That's the way I meant it.

People tend to take Kirk's one episode female love interests as evidence that he's a love 'em and leave 'em, dismissive type, that he's a heartbreaker. That ignores the fact that he's not casual about sexual relationships, and that, like you said, the women themselves are not having their hearts broken-that they have their own agency and enjoy casual sex.

And, yeah, this fanon interpretation of Kirk is old, but new Trek reinforces it in a bad way.

I see. I just wanted to point that out. I'd say that from a 23rd century perspective, a womanizer would probably lose all connotations of misogyny, but the show IS written by 20th century writers so yeah I get what you mean.

And see, I hate the fanon that reboot Kirk is disrespectful to women. I don't see him as a womanizer either, but I'll leave that since I can see it as legitimately debatable and pretty dependent on what definition of "womanizer" one goes with.

But as far as being actually disrespectful, I just don't see it. He doesn't treat them as inferior, less intelligent, like they owe him sex or anything else. He can be flirty, perhaps even immaturely lecherous (e.g. "hey ladies, Jim Kirk" and that kind of thing) but I'm tired of the idea that we've seen him do anything thus far that makes him somehow contemptible example of a user of women, instead of a good person with a boatload of interpersonal relationship issues in the first place and a fairly normal array of occasionally eyeroll-inducing personality traits just like anyone else has.

I think it's more the way JJ Abrams treats women in the films, and that extends to interpreting a Kirk as disrespectful.

Bingo!

This reveals more about the character of JJ Abrams rather than the character of Kirk.

I still think Sydney Bristow was awesome.

[ SECRET POST #2503 ]

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