[ SECRET POST #2512 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2512 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 062 secrets from Secret Submission Post #359.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[meredith44]

But before the Avengers stuff, as a non-comic reader would you have known enough to know that Iron Man and Captain America would be people you would think would be fasible leads for a side project? I really don't think that non-comics people would have known of Iron Man especially, and look how well that came out. And they are planning an Ant Man movie. Ant Man. I'm a comic book reader and he still is not a character I would pick to lead a movie. Forget any non-comics people being able to recognize him and want a movie of him. Yet there is a whole group of women that would make interesting leads in movies imo. (And don't even get me started on ensembles. Like how do you include Pietro in X-Men without his twin, Wanda, as they are so connected? Well, it's being done. Can't have too many women in our ensembles, after all. Audiences might not like it.)

Also, people always point to the failure of Elektra and Catwoman as to why there aren't female superhero movies, but that conveniently forgets all of the movies led by male superheroes (like the Green Lantern movie) that flopped. Hell, even the Incredible Hulk movies didn't do well the last two times they went for it, and still they tried twice and included the character in the Avengers. (Don't get me wrong, I love Ruffalo's Bruce/Hulk, and I'm glad he was there.) People want to see good movies. There are crap movies featuring male leads just as there are crap movies featuring female leads. It's just movies featuring male leads are the standard, so if one of them flops it is not looked at as representative of the genre as a whole.

But I agree with you that it is a rather self-fulfilling prophecy. The studio owners think people don't want to see female characters, and thus audiences are more wary of anything with a female character. I wish it weren't the case.

(Sorry for the TL; DR. As a female comic reader who loves both genders of characters and would like to see more movies with women in the lead, this is a topic I care about.)

[(Anonymous)]

What I think is that Marvel got really lucky and hit one out of the park with their first Iron Man movie. RDJ delivered such an amazing performance that, coupled with the actually good writing in that movie, managed to create enough good faith to carry the franchise for several more films until The Avengers rolled around. It's pretty telling that the Iron Man movies always gross so much more than others, even when the second and third pale greatly in comparison to the first. They rose above the geek buzz.

Personally, I don't think it's impossible for a female-driven superhero film to succeed if it gets all the above conditions right. I'm just giving my thought on the likelihood of the studio(s) ever even attempting something like that, with all the effort and care that they should put into it. Which is fairly slim, realistically speaking. I'm still waiting for a Wonder Woman film; we know the character can carry a product because the TV show from the old days was fairly well-received. It boggles the mind that it's taken so long for them to now finally be considering it seriously.

As for the MCU... unfortunately I don't think a BW film can hope for much success. Part of it is the actress and part of it is the way they've written her up to now, as a character so intrinsically 'supportive' in nature. I think they should go with a new character. If Ant Man then why not Ms. Marvel? And again, non-comic reader but it seems what Marvel female characters I know (from pop culture osmosis) and am interested in seeing all belong to franchises Marvel doesn't have rights to.

[meredith44]

I agree with that. The writing and RDJ's performance were both stellar. I just think that there is just as much of a chance of hitting it right with a female lead as a male. So if similar numbers of movies were made, I think similar number of hits are potentially there.

Yeah, I figure they won't likely want to do the effort, but it saddens me, as there really is no reason why they shouldn't. It can be done, and done right. Wonder Woman's status is ridiculous. But, granted, I would totally prefer that they do it right than that they half-ass it, fail, and then blame "see, no one wants to see a female superhero, even an iconic one" for the failure.

I think there is a chance for a BW movie. James Bond movies are popular and the recent ones seem like totally something that could have Black Widow instead of James Bond and just need some tweaks to work. I am fine with a new character too. Captain Marvel (aka Carol Danvers, who is whom I was assuming you meant, as she was slightly changed and the new Miss Marvel has not debuted yet; see secret 13) would be awesome. And was, in fact, one of the characters I was thinking of when talking about this.

Out of curiosity, what Marvel characters were you thinking of, if you don't mind my asking? I'll admit, a lot of my favorites have ties to the X-Men, so they wouldn't be possible for Marvel at the moment. (Not that I trust Fox to do better considering how they butchered Emma Frost in XMFC.) I can come up with a handful, though. But as I am a comics fan and follow comics blogs, I'm not exactly sure who would be popular just through pop culture osmosis.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I mean, we're always saying, "Hey, you know, this movie could really work with a female protagonist," but sadly we don't make the decisions. Studio execs have such weird ideas about how female characters should be portrayed, despite all evidence to the contrary.

A good BW movie could be something akin to the Salt movie or the Nikita series in tone. Not sure how well that would mesh with the current lineup, but maybe that could change after Winter Soldier. Natasha gets a lot of hate from fanboys, though, even F!S isn't uniformly kind to her, as this thread demonstrates. Seems like something Marvel would be leery about. I'd worry about them doing it, then seeing it bomb and drawing the conclusion that it isn't worth it.

Oh yes, I did mean Carol Danvers. I guess her identity has been revamped, huh? But that's a relatively recent change, so do you think they'd go with that version if she ever ends up in the MCU? Or would they go with the more iconic identity of Ms. Marvel, as she was known when she joined the Avengers?

X-Men characters definitely come to mind, and with its popularity in mainstream pop culture due to the previous films and the various cartoons, I think they would be a hit among non-comic fans. Though I suppose any X-Men film would necessarily be an ensemble piece unless your name is Wolverine, there are some great ladies in need of a day in the limelight. I'm... really appalled by the mess that was Jean Grey/Phoenix's treatment in X-Men 3, so that's the wrong I'd like to see rectified the most. And... do you know if Marvel has rights to Scarlet Witch? I seem to recall that they could and plan to use Quicksilver for some unclear legal reason.

(Also Fantastic Four! Guess a new movie is in the works but since Fox is still at the helm I'm not all that hopeful.)

[meredith44]

Yes, partially because so many of the people in charge are men. I wish it were different.

Yes, Salt. Or Wanted, I believe? Nikita possibly too. Or Alias, perhaps? I think each franchise has its own tone. Thor was the most comedic and fantastical, while Captain America was the most "realistic", with Iron Man in the middle. I think BW could fit in that scale. Much more on the CA end of it. But, yes, people are not always universally fond of her. It isn't even just the fanboys. A lot of women complain about things like how potentially revealing her costume is (again, see this thread). I'd worry about them doing it, then seeing it bomb and drawing the conclusion that it isn't worth it. Yeah, I very much have that fear, with any movie led by a woman. It just needs to be done well and IDK that I trust TPTB to do that.

Yup. Starting in 2012, I believe? I don't know if they'd go for her as Ms. Marvel or Captain Marvel. The Captain one could possibly be more confusing, given both potential familiarity with Ms. Marvel and potential confusion with Captain America. But there is material to work with either way if they so chose. (Which I doubt, but...)

I agree with all of that. As far as Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch, that is who I was talking about with Pietro and Wanda above, sorry. They straddle the lines of both worlds, like in their title (or mostly centered on them) House of M which had effects in both the Avengers and X-Men worlds (mostly X-Men, but Hawkeye, for example, was really affected by it and got a solo title out of it). Marvel has the right to them because they were both Avengers. (They just can't mention that they are mutants or that their father was Magneto. So, uh, no origin story. :P ) X-Men has rights to them because of their ties there. (Although they are only choosing to use Quicksilver/Pietro for some stupid reason, considering the ties the twins have to each other.) So they are odd. And I love Wanda/Scarlet Witch, so I'm good with Avengers using them and hope they can get it to work.

(Yeah, I have hopes and fears of that. Just as I want the new X-Men movie to be good, but considering their history and how they have treated some of the women, IDK how much I want to raise my hopes.)