[ SECRET POST #2513 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2513 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Early post!

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 048 secrets from Secret Submission Post #359.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[greenvelvetcake]

[silverr]

.. yabut ....

[(Anonymous)]

but what?s
e
e the above discussion regarding fanart versus fanfic. why is one considered acceptable, and in most cases, expected to be free, while the other is not? the level of skill involved doesn't really vary; there are just as many poor fanartists as there are fanauthors.

this is actually a subject which I have been curious about for some time.

[silverr]

I see your point, though I hadn't really considered it before. It is a sort of double standard, isn't it?

Hm ... This could just be my bias as someone who can't draw worth shit and therefore admires those who can (and who therefore is always willing to throw money at them), but fanart seems to me to be more difficult to do well? Drawing seems to me to take more training and practice and skill (and innate talent even) than writing, which is more or less a requisite life skill? I dunno.

[(Anonymous)]

writing may well be a requisite life skill, but any fool can draw a line that is more or less straight. the trick is, writing well, which is not a requisite life skill. else any fool and their dog could secure a contract with a publisher anytime they wish.

for exhibit a, I submit fanfiction.net. or, these days, AO3.

[silverr]

But a straight line isn't the sort of [fan]art we're talking about anyhow.

IMO the writing that would correspond to "a straight line drawn by any fool" (with a ruler) would be a form letter telling someone that "as per our phone conversation I'm enclosing ...." blah blah blah.

I do agree, though, that writing well is as uncommon as drawing well.

[(Anonymous)]

A straight line drawn with a ruler might be equivalent to "as per our phone conversation I'm enclosing...", yes, but anyone can also draw stick figures or poorly proportioned outlines of people, and I'd say that's what's equivalent to most of the bad!fic on ff.net or Ao3...

For me, even though I would call myself a better writer than an artist (and writing is certainly my main medium), I actually find it easier (and faster) to draw something passable than to write something passable.

[(Anonymous)]

Imo it's not really a double standard because it's pretty different and distinct communities that don't mix that much. ~Fandom as a whole~ has a lot of different standards depending on who and where you are.
Speaking as a fanartist I do get the impression it's mostly the writers and fic readers themselves that enforce the 'no fic commissions' rule as a community standard. Also it should be said that this topic is not wholly undisputed among fanartists either, of course, though the general consesus seems to be 'it's your risk of having to give share of your profits to a copyright holder'.
The reasons for the differences might be found in the specifics of copyright law application for words and images respectively (though I'm a bit disinclined to give fandom that much credit), resulting in more fanartists being willing to take the risk, and also in how the respective industries work outside of fandom. The publishing process for the kind of fictional prose that fanfic is doesn't involve a lot of commissioning (or at least I believe it is more submission based but I'm not a writer), however for illustration - and almost all fanart is illustrative - it is the norm.
I'd also guess that in fic circles the risk of copyright lawsuits might be more seen as something that would impact the community negatively and not so much the individual author? For historical reasons, maybe? Input welcome.

[ketita]

I both draw and write, and I don't think I could say that one is more difficult than the other. Drawings can sometimes be a larger sinkhole of time, for me, because I can't draw on the bus etc. (which I do with writing). Also, with writing a lot of the time investment comes in terms of setting up a plot, which is something I do in my head. If you look at me you'd just see me staring off into space, you wouldn't think "oh she's working so hard", even though it takes me a *lot* of thinking and reworking until I've got a plotline I'm happy with.

As for writing being a requisite life skill, good writing, good pacing, good plotting, good character development - are not. In general, fandom tends to devalue characterization, pacing, etc. because imo so many people can't do it, and because a lot of readers want their OTP fix and don't actually mind if objectively the story is plotless or badly paced. UST, smut, cute dialogue, and drama are easily used to keep a story popular for many chapters on end.
Furthermore, with fanart especially you can create something "cute" and "fun" that's completely ooc or random, that imo would be much more difficult to get away with in fic.

Haha, um, sorry for writing such a long spiel, it just hit me kind of hard. Writing, and writing well, is tough and demands hours of effort and time investment (and often betas, btw, who donate their own time to help improve the piece). Someone who doesn't have much innate drawing talent can often, with effort, learn. They won't be Picasso or Michaelangelo, but they'll be reasonable. Someone who doesn't have much writing skill can also learn. But seriously, writing well and crafting stories isn't that easy, and these conversations always disappoint me because I feel fic authors are often devalued.

[silverr]

Furthermore, with fanart especially you can create something "cute" and "fun" that's completely ooc or random, that imo would be much more difficult to get away with in fic.

I was thinking this too: you articulated very sweetly. (I agree with the rest of your long spiel too.)

To me, it comes down to this: both writing and drawing require a) a commitment to learning the craft, b) the creative spark that comes up with things to write or draw and c) the desire to get what is in one's head out into the world. Those who write or draw well have all three.

[(Anonymous)]

if you want to get paid for writing, write something original.
fanfic should NOT be compensated because it isn't an original work. neither should fanart! they are exactly the same in that regard. if people choose to pay for fanart over fanfiction, that's their preference. nobody can say 'well you payed for fanart so you should pay for fanfic'. people pay for what they want. they obviously value fanart more highly if they are willing to pay for it. but charging for either is simply against the law.

as for me, i'd pay for fanart if it was an original production (definitely not a print) and i really loved it. i wouldn't pay for fanfic. i barely pay for books as it is. i think i bought all of the harry potters used and probably spent less than 25 dollars on all of them. and i love the shit out of harry potter. so give me something of about 6000 pages that is on par with harry potter and i might give you 25 bucks for it. but then again, if you have that much creativity and skill, i hope you're not wasting it on fanfic.

[(Anonymous)]

says the Joker...

[greenvelvetcake]

Of course. Who can you trust if you can't trust the homicidal clown?

[elaminator]

A+ gif usage, congrats!

[(Anonymous)]

I like you.