[ SECRET POST #2525 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2525 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 063 secrets from Secret Submission Post #361.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

(frozen comment) Re: LISTEN TO ME WHITE PEOPLE

[(Anonymous)]

but their point about the existence of historical and long-lasting systems of racism and oppression is not really incorrect, nor is the point that some people have historically benefited from those systems and others have not, nor is the point that the current economic and political systems of most Western countries are the consequences of their long histories, and in substantial respects the consequences of colonialism and imperialism in their histories. you can't ignore that history when its consequences still live today. insisting on the recognition of that history is not the same as saying that one skin colour needs to be put down or demeaned; it's a description of how the world is.

(frozen comment) Re: LISTEN TO ME WHITE PEOPLE

[(Anonymous)]

How about the fact that enemy tribes in Africa sold those people into slavery and were a big part of how they were captured? Or how about the African slave owners that existed in the United States (because yes, there were a few of them)?

(frozen comment) Re: LISTEN TO ME WHITE PEOPLE

[(Anonymous)]

this argument seems to me to be akin to saying that, because European empires often would raise up locals as client kings to rule over their imperial dominions, imperialism was not bad for those locals.

did African slave traders exist in Africa? Yes, certainly they did, and it was very wrong of them to do so - but their actions took place within an economic system of trade created by imperial policies - trade between Africa, the Caribbean, North America, and the homeland made possible by the European states and European economic actors, and which were primarily beneficial to those actors. did African slave owners exist in the United States? Certainly, but the system as a whole was still a system which primarily worked to the benefit of the white plantation owners throughout the South, on the backs of the primarily black laborers they owned. were those people wrong in a moral sense? Yes, of course they were. but if we're talking about the legacy of history, the legacy of that history in the world we see today has primarily been beneficial to the former colonial powers, not the former colonized powers, and the parts of society that were wealthy and white. the world that exists today would not exist as it does were it not for a lot of nasty, brutal things done by colonial powers.

and again, a recognition of this element of history does not require hating or tearing down any group on the basis of color (nor, as i read it, did the comment you were originally replying to advocate that)

(frozen comment) Re: LISTEN TO ME WHITE PEOPLE

[insanenoodlyguy]

Every people throughout history has had a sizable population of dicks.

Some folks were just better at it then others and the rest are sour grapes about it.

(frozen comment) Re: LISTEN TO ME WHITE PEOPLE

[(Anonymous)]

I know that you're just trolling and all, so w/e.

but I kind of feel like I should point out, in case anyone actually wants to use it, that this argument is actually perfectly fine and coherent in itself, it just leaves you with basically no moral standpoint at all to object to anyone using violence in politics.

(frozen comment) Re: LISTEN TO ME WHITE PEOPLE

[(Anonymous)]

This is good and you should feel good.

It's sort of weird the way we frame this conversation, though. Because you're mostly going for the political and economic framework of colonialism, which is right on, but then a lot of times people forget that the U.S. had to justify slavery after the fact, the racial arguments began, and that legacy is what I think people don't get about the connection between slavery-as-economics and slavery-as-a-racist-institution. There was a change in how we rationalized it, and that's a huge part of how this came to be about race instead of just economics.

(frozen comment) Re: LISTEN TO ME WHITE PEOPLE

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT

If you could point me at the descendents of those African slave owners who are benefiting from the atrocities of their ancestors structuring society in a way that favors them due solely to skin color, I'll be sure to yell at them, too. But I feel like that might be difficult for some reason. Something about racism and classism being entirely different things and only one of them operating on a purely superficial basis or some such.

(frozen comment) Re: LISTEN TO ME WHITE PEOPLE

[(Anonymous)]

How about the fact that those enemy tribes were sometimes already enemies, because Africa is not a single homogenous entity, and were sometimes pressured into becoming entities by the forces of white European colonialism (the ramifications of which you can see in, say, the Rwandan genocide)? How about what you would do if someone offered you guns and money to bring your neighbors in, or said they'd settle for you and your family if you didn't cooperate? How about when we decided to continue to justify slavery in the United States after the rest of the world had started to abolish it, we had to make an excuse to do so and thus basically "created" race as we understand it today, in order to justify slavery via the "differences" between white people and Africans? How about those "difference" narratives (about intelligence, physical capabilities, sexuality, aggression, and on and on and on) are still alive and present today in the form of stories about academic ability and poverty and "Welfare Queen" stories and "gang violence" and the phrase "black on black crime" (as if most crime isn't intraracial, sheesh)?

How about you try a real history lesson about race in the U.S. instead of this bumper sticker response that blames the enslaved rather than the actual slavers and then conveniently forgets the ramifications? Ugh.

(frozen comment) Re: LISTEN TO ME WHITE PEOPLE

[(Anonymous)]

oh, you're that person