Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2013-12-06 06:50 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2013-12-06 06:50 pm
[ SECRET POST #2530 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2530 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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[Doctor Who (gif)]
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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]
14. [SPOILERS for family guy]
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16. [WARNING for abuse]
Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #361.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
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Was discussing it with a friend of mine (she's a transwoman) and she brought up something that I noticed too -- Jeph Jacques seems to be allergic to writing gay characters. He put Dora and Tai together but is barely focusing on them at all. Dora's bisexuality was almost never mentioned except once or twice as a gag YEARS ago. There was one gay male -- Marten's boss -- who hasn't been seen in almost a decade. Even the one trans character he wrote is into guys, which is not an especially common trait of transwomen in the United States. To make matters worse, he made a big deal about how he did all this research blah blah blah about trans* issues, and while he didn't make Clair a caricature, he basically made her transgender-ness completely non-existent, with plot relevance in only one scene. So in all honesty she may as well be cisgendered for all anyone can fucking tell, because he's done NOTHING with the character.
And then there's fucking Marigold and Dale. It's plainly obvious Jeph only did this shit because he didn't like people shipping Marigold and Hannelore. It's nothing. It's non-plot. It's not interesting. The only thing that even makes it somewhat remarkable is Dale's ambiguous brown-ness, which is never ever talked about.
And that's the thing about Jeph Jacques that really really drives me nuts. It's the whole faux-social justice thing that seems to be popular with webcomic writers these days (Dave Willis is guilty of this too, and you KNOW he's only doing it out of rebellion against his religious upbringing.) It's obvious that he's forcing it, not because he cares, because he wants people to think he's a good person. And he's smug about it. So he makes a big deal about how he tries to include a bunch of different demographics in his comics, but the thing is... the main cast is a bunch of cishet or may as well be cishet white hipster fucks leading charmed lives, anyone falling outside of that demographic gets very little screen time besides Dale who only started coming around more because Jeph hates Marigold/Hannelore shipping.
But people ship Marigold and Hannelore because THEY'RE THE ONLY CHARACTERS WITH DEPTH. I've been saying for years that Jeph should just get rid of everyone else and just make it the Hannelore and Marigold (and Pintsize and Momo) Show. All his other characters are cardboard cutouts, his comedy is only barely more ribald than network sitcoms, and he's terrible at following through on any real drama. He plays it safe, and that's probably why he never used Claire's transgender-ness for any drama. That's probably why he put Tai and Dora on a bus. That's probably why he threw Dale at Marigold in the clunkiest, most poorly written and rushed romance I've seen in years. Because that might be controversial and interesting and we can't have that. I've seen better romances in a Bioware RPG.
Fuck this comic. It's nothing but a commercial for his T-shirts.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2013-12-07 12:47 am (UTC)(link)But at the end of the day, I feel like the comic is basically Hipster Friends at this point. And I completely understand someone not wanting to read that, because Friends is awful. I still like it, but... it is what it is.
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(You're right about Marten's dad, though, I'd forgotten him completely -- shows how much the guy actually appears!)
As far as Dora and Tai, part of the problem is that whole relationship is written horrendously badly as well. So it makes sense that OP wouldn't want any part of it.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2013-12-07 01:03 am (UTC)(link)Won't disagree with you there.
I think ultimately the thing is that it seems like Jeph basically got completely bored of writing Questionable Content a long time ago. The result of this is that he's created a ton of new characters - and the old characters remain in the strip are like anachronisms, they're completely out of place and they barely play any role. I mean, Dora is probably the worst-written character at this point - she is useless. Marten and Faye barely play any role beyond being observers who are around to watch the characters who are actually dynamic do things. And none of the other old characters do anything. It's not in itself a bad thing that Jeph has done this - it's a bad thing if you liked the old QC and don't like the new QC, like OP apparently does, but it's not necessarily bad to have new characters - but it is a problem for the strip that the old characters just really don't fit into what the strip has become.
As for me, personally, I mostly like the new characters. I mean, not a lot, but they're basically pleasant enough for me to read low-content pleasant things happening to them. And Marigold/Dale doesn't bother me because... uh... IDK, I guess I just don't give enough of a shit about the comic (and I think it is a bit unfair to Jeph to object to it solely on the basis that it's replacing another pairing but w/e). I agree that it probably would ultimately better for him to just cut bait and write the strip he obviously wants to write, but then I guess independent cartoonists are rarely in a position to have complete creative freedom and the dude needs money.
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(Anonymous) 2013-12-07 01:02 am (UTC)(link)No?
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(Anonymous) 2013-12-07 01:12 am (UTC)(link)If you consider that the general population's incidence of homosexuality is 10-15% (this is a number biologists believe is true for most mammals, humans included), then the incidence of homosexuality for trans people who transition in adulthood will end up being around 85-90%. There's a little bit of play here, and these numbers don't necessarily count bisexuals, but for the most part, most transwomen are going to be into girls.
I run a gaming group for LGBT people and we have a significant trans* membership, about eighteen people total. Out of all eighteen of them, only one of them has sexual interest in men, and she's an admitted bisexual. I know that anecdotal evidence is not especially useful, but it's something to consider. I can count the number of strictly heterosexual trans* people I've met on one hand... and I've met hundreds of transwomen and transmen.
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(Anonymous) 2013-12-07 03:27 am (UTC)(link)...And yet a lot of recent strips have been about Dora and Tai's relationship. And didn't Marten's dad just get married to his boyfriend recently?
he didn't make Clair a caricature, he basically made her transgender-ness completely non-existent, with plot relevance in only one scene
How should it be treated, then? Mention it in every scene she's in? Really bang you over the head with it?
It's plainly obvious Jeph only did this shit because he didn't like people shipping Marigold and Hannelore. It's nothing. It's non-plot. It's not interesting.
It's character development for both of them. Marigold/Dale was set up years ago. It didn't come out of fucking nowhere.
It's the whole faux-social justice thing that seems to be popular with webcomic writers these days (Dave Willis is guilty of this too, and you KNOW he's only doing it out of rebellion against his religious upbringing.)
There is no pleasing some people. Get off your high horse. Complain about the writing, but whining about a varied cast to make yourself look good in comparison? Let's get you a medal.
no subject
Did you actually read the entirety of what I wrote? Dora and Tai's relationship has barely been focused on until recently, and it's so poorly written it's almost like an afterthought -- not to mention, again, Dora's bisexuality has almost never come up until lately, and I suspect a big part of why they got thrown together is because they're the only canon queer female characters Jeph hasn't completely ejected from the comic.
Marigold/Dale being set up years ago is nonsense. They were set up as another boring geek rivalry horde vs alliance blah blah gag. The romance aspect is horrendously tacked on.
Oh, and by the way, good job with the strawman on Claire, but like the entire rest of your post you're wrong. There's 3 ways to fuck up on writing characters like Clair. First is a caricature for comedic value. If you don't know what's wrong with that one I can't help you. Second is, yes, beating the reader over the head with it. Real trans* people have serious problems to deal with, but they're not all 24/7 miserable. But the way some writers trying to be "sensitive" do it is to write their trans* characters like you'd write a gay man in a gulag. It's not realistic. Not to say that a worse situation diminishes trans* issues either but sometimes writers go overboard when writing trans characters -- or gay characters, or black characters, or anyone who isn't white and cishet (and usually male.) So you making the automatic assumption that's what I'm asking for here is pretty insulting. The third way is what Jeph Jacques does, which is to have the characters go "hey i'm trans" "that's cool let's never speak of it again so we can go back to being hipster douchebag do-nothings." That's just as offensive, because it's straight up unrealistic in the opposite direction.
The proper way to write a character like Clair, one that Jeph simply doesn't seem to have the capability for, is to write people, not plot devices. Trans* people are going to have problems, but it doesn't need to be brought up in every scene.
In conclusion: You're an idiot. Good night.
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(Anonymous) 2013-12-07 12:26 pm (UTC)(link)I don't know about you, but that's what I and every LGBT person/organisation I know have been working towards. It's kinda sad that you want a future where we're still fighting and treated as "other" and "different".
Also, he has the most realistic treatment of bisexuality I've encountered in a while. No, we do NOT spend out lives talking about being bisexual, we fall for whoever we fall for naturally and that's that. We don't spend every waking second reminding the world we're bisexual.
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Read my post again please.
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(Anonymous) 2013-12-07 01:41 pm (UTC)(link)Also, I what do you mean by "canon" characters? Do you consider the new cast not to be canon or what? Additionally, from what you are saying, I get that basically what you want is for trans characters to be in the focus. There was some short discussion of trans issues recently and, to be honest, I don't expect more from a background character.
And Dave/Marigold? In my opinion it was set to be a romance plot from the very beginning, with all the primary school-level attempts to get the girl's attention and so on.
But whatever, I get that you like to hate QC - after all, it's healthy to have an outlet like that. Personally I enjoy hating on xkcd, which for some reaon was not mentioned on the list of bad webcomics somewhere above.
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I don't "like to hate QC." I hate QC because it is a bad webcomic and Jeph Jacques should feel bad and I can't believe I stuck with it for this long.
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(Anonymous) 2013-12-08 12:44 am (UTC)(link)(frozen comment) no subject
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(Anonymous) 2013-12-08 11:19 am (UTC)(link)(frozen comment) no subject
Really? That's what you're going for in your dogged attempt to claim moral superiority?
Why do you even care so much? Seriously, just stop. I'm really done with this conversation.