[ SECRET POST #2545 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2545 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.



__________________________________________________


11.










Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 070 secrets from Secret Submission Post #363.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

10. http://i.imgur.com/rYX7UyO.png

[(Anonymous)]

A) WTF is with your secret design

B) Why do you feel the need to refer to these things in All Caps TVTropes Talk

C) I think it's kind of simplistic to divide those things into those two categories - I think in most cases it's more complicated than that, and there's an extent to which circumstance and history inform everyone's actions, and there's an extent to which it's choices and decisions that are the determining factor. I think it's more interesting to look at it in a balanced way, rather than simply doing one or the other in a mechanistic way. Complexity, man.

[(Anonymous)]

you seem really insulted by A&B

[(Anonymous)]

I wouldn't say insulted. Peeved, maybe.

[(Anonymous)]

That's not all caps. THIS IS ALL CAPS. That's... I don't know, all leading caps?

[(Anonymous)]

You're right. You're totally right. That's what it is.

[dreemyweird]

I agree. Freudian excuses are an indicator of a lazily written antagonist. Plus, they instantly make the character bland and uninteresting. Half a century ago, when nobody had access to the Internet, the idea must have seemed novel and tickled people's imagination; "wow, this dude is obsessed with killing little girls because his mother didn't love him! How psychologically profound!". Now? Nope, sorry. All such tropes do is make me yawn. Like, sure, there are actual serial killers whose motives can be classified as Freudian, but, if you wish to portray one, do not go for the "super duper ultimate villain you'll never understand" characterization. Because the reader understands all too well and hence starts seeing the protagonist (and, by extension, the author) as a moron.

This is a part of the reason why I found the confrontation scene in Curtain disappointing. Though it was somewhat remedied by the fact that Christie's original idea regarding the way the killer committed his crimes was remarkably fresh.

Personally, I often find that the scariest and most interesting antagonists are those whose motives are never fully explained/whose motives are explained but whose feelings are not. And yes, the Shakespearean Meltdown ones are very good, too, partially because there are so many different ways in which they can be written.

ETA: oh and btw I love your weird-ass design

[(Anonymous)]

I kind of blame Red Dragon for the influx of Freudian excuses for villains. Wasn't that the book that started the trend?

[dreemyweird]

Might have been. The tendency certainly emerged around that time, but I don't really know if Red Dragon was a part of it or if it was because of Red Dragon. It might be both, actually.

[(Anonymous)]

The scene in the book or the adaptation?

[dreemyweird]

In the adaptation. IIRC, in the book, Poirot only briefly mentions the killer's motives (writing something to the effect of "he enjoys having power over people's lives").

[(Anonymous)]

This is weird to me. "I know these are realistic and true to life, but don't let me know that.' That is the whole point of writing stories is to tell truths about the world around us.

Plus, not every psychological reason is Freudian (in fact most are, as most of his theories aren't real to life) and it takes a lot more work and research to write about the psychological reasons behind someone's actions then it ever will to say "people are born evil", "oh, no reason, born evil" is the lazy way of writing. You don't have to do anything to write it.

That's the one I hate, because people are not born evil and because of lazy people and how people just loved to judge others without getting to know the full story a lot of people seriously believe people can be born evil.

"super duper ultimate villain you'll never understand" characterization.

This is the real problem with those stories. It doesn't matter how you end it, if you have this character you are being lazy. There is no such thing as this in real life and we need to stop teaching people that there is and that it is interesting.

[intrigueing]

Shakepearean meltdowns are all the win :) (and usually result in me feeling sorry for the villain in a far more peaceful and fair way).

[(Anonymous)]

Wait, what's a Shakespearean melt-down? I tried googling, but not finding much.

[(Anonymous)]

I *think* OP was aiming for this one: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainousBreakdown

[(Anonymous)]

No, I think OP was talking more about say, characters like MacBeth and Othello. They're not villains per se, they're tragic heroes, but both of them do Terrible Villainous Things. And it's not because they're bad people per se, but because they keep on making bad choices or listening to the wrong people and having the wrong influences.
I don't know much about Breaking Bad but Walter White seems to be one of these characters. He starts out okay and then as he keeps on making choices and getting pulled deeper into the rabbit hole he becomes more and more villainous.

[(Anonymous)]

The utter disintegration of Ian Reed (Luther, season 1) was some of the best TV I've seen in years. A cascading nightmare of choices, consequences and their fallout. It was spine-chilling.

[(Anonymous)]

Absolutely. And I still couldn't help but feel sorry for him, even though he ended up pretty despicable.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed! Azula has one of my favorite villain endings. She's a real asshole all the way through but it's still kinda sad to see her fall apart.

pleb here

[(Anonymous)]

Examples of both types of character?

[darkmanifest]

Somebody please tell this to the author of Naruto. In fact go back in time and tell this to him before that bullshit with Nagato and Obito.

I love it when villains didn't have a crappy childhood or are batshit insane or are otherwise evil because of things out of their control, they just made horrible decisions as adults and their way of dealing with the consequences is becoming complete tits of their own free will. Though it's not so nice when their fans try to fabricate excuses for them anyway (cough MCU Loki cough).

[(Anonymous)]

That is why Orochimaru is the only decent villain the series had. No bullshit excuses or childhood trauma iirc. And then Kishimoto had to go and ruin his character. I have no idea why I still pay attention to this shitty series anymore.

[darkmanifest]

If Orochimaru doesn't rise up out of nowhere like "Haha, I can't believe you people fell for that snake oil I was selling, gonna destroy all your shit now" before the series is over, I will...be numbly disappointed. Really, I don't anymore, I just want to see how Sasuke and Naruto consummate their marriage in the end.

[(Anonymous)]

I think the biggest problem with freudian excuses is that so many of them are just sooo badly done. But yeah I could stand to see less of them.

I like a mixed bag with my villians. People do shitty things for a lot of different reasons. Stories should reflect that.

Secret 10 - Villains in fiction

[transcriptanon]

[Picture is black text over a blank white background.]

I wish Freudian Excuses weren't so popular for villains. A Shakespearian Melt-Down is so much more interesting. It's so much more fascinating in films and media, seeing a normal person completely fuck their lives up all by themselves and fall apart into terrible people. The Freudian Excuse just seems like a cop-out.