[ SECRET POST #2584 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2584 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.
[Danball Senki Wars]


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02.
[Harry Potter]


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03.
[Burn Notice]


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04.
[The Island of Doctor Moreau]


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05.
[Papers, Please]


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06.
[Star Trek: The Next Generation]


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07.
[Pretty Little Liars]


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08.
[KILL LA KILL]


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09.
[Labyrinth, The Hobbit]

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10.
[The Hobbit]


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11.
[The Hobbit]


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12.
[The Kiss of the Spider Woman]














Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 029 secrets from Secret Submission Post #369.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[fleshisyummy]

I'm guessing you're a cis dude. If not, I apologize. But because of this, you have to realize that not all women are going to welcome you with open arms. It's similar with the LGBT community and cis straight people. You have to realize that many so-called allies will immediately lash out at people in the movement if they're not immediately welcomed and say incredibly bigoted things as a result. Because of this, people in the movement have a right to be guarded.

As for the "not belonging" and "not mattering," you have to realize that the feminist movement is specifically about bringing equality to women. You're not going to be the top priority. You just have to realize that.

If you're okay with this, then go ahead calling yourself a feminist ally. If your feelings get hurt too easily, then you might want to keep out of feminist circles.

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[ill_omened]

How often does this actually happen, and how often is it that the usual suspects in the LGBT 'community' constantly attack and come out with the most ridiculous identity politics nonsense until they drive out yet another 'ally' (awful term, you either support queer rights and cultural acceptance, or you don't).

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[anonymouslyyours]

A lot. All the male feminists save one I've met in real life have been opportunistic dickbags or guys who talk over women concerning our issues and want cookies for not thinking stoning woman is okay.

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[(Anonymous)]

Then they're idiots too. But to paint all male feminists with the same brush is asinine.

However, are they talking over WOMEN or over specific individuals?

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[anonymouslyyours]

No one is painting all male feminists with the same brush thank you very much. But jfc it's like pulling teeth to get some people to admit them behaving this way is not a freak occurrence.

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I can admit many are awful, but many are wonderful as well. Other anon is kind of backlashing against your declaration of every one you've met which implies a vast majority vs a tiny minority when it's not as skewed as that.

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[ill_omened]

If it's anything like the complaints in the LGBT society, well I'm not saying your complaints aren't real, but everytime I've seen people whine about the exact same things they've just been pressed middleclassers looking for something to whine about.

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[anonymouslyyours]

Not middleclass. I wish men pretending to be feminists was my biggest problem. I am fully willing to admit my location plays into what kind of feminist men I am exposed to but IT HAPPENS. Men pretend to be feminist to distort sex positivity. Men pretend to be feminist to lend their opinions (which they voice at every opportunity) more weight. Men think only extreme cases of sexism and oppression are misogynistic and they could never resemble the bad guy because they love their mother!

But the male feminists I have known have tried to bully girls into sleeping with them because it is ~empowering~, have tried to tell me how I should feel about birth control and abortion as a personal choice, have tried to "correct" how I feel about my body, have refused to admit the words they use, stereotypes, and attitudes they perpetuate could reasonably offend or hurt me because they're ~feminists~ how could they be wrong?

Like, I take no pleasure in these experiences. I wish I could say every self-identified male feminist I have met was a shining beacon of hope and progress. But I can't. I will say there have been some upstanding dudes who have actively refused to call themselves feminists because of misconceptions or fear of the baggage of the term.

(frozen comment) Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[(Anonymous)]

That's an awful lot of words for men have different opinions to feminism then me and I've read the worst possible motive in every case.

Expected of a fatty to be honest, you don't get to be angry at all men because in highschool the boys laughed at you.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

thanks

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[fleshisyummy]

From my experience, often.

It's true the LGBT community has a bad habit of identity policing and is not always accepting of queer people. However, it's also true that as soon as a queer person says they're annoyed with something some straight people do, these so-called "allies" immediately start attacking the queer person by saying, "You're an awful person for saying all straight people are like that" instead of, you know, trying to improve their behavior or calling out straight people doing shitty things.

I'm cis and white, and I have literally never been personally attack for either of these things. If a cis straight person is attacked, they have usually said something ignorant. It's true that places like tumblr definitely go overboard with the attacking by sending death threats and things and that's certainly a very serious problem. However, many of these "allies" who are "driven out" are people who believe they deserve applause for supporting the movement and act very negatively if people are skeptical of their motives.

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[ill_omened]

But the answer their is obviously 'you're right it's not all straight people and I shouldn't have said, lets focus on those people who are doing this'. Works everytime, winning hearts and minds, and I have no time for people who complain about tone policing or whatever.

And I've seen the applause thing such a tiny number of times. It's not a real problem, and being outwardly inherently skeptical of all straight supporters isn't okay.

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[anonymouslyyours]

And I've seen the applause thing such a tiny number of times

What magical land do you live in? I've seen the attitude from many people, both in person and online, that they expect gratitude, have a special insight into the oppression suffered and how to overcome it nicely, or deserve benefit of the doubt for simply being so brave as to acknowledge sexism, homophobia, and racism are wrong when they weren't forced to by circumstances of their birth.

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[fleshisyummy]

Well, why can't a cis straight person just look at a post like that and say, "Well, I'm not like this, but I realize a lot of straight cis peopel are so I'll just move on and not attack the poster"? It's easy. If you're that upset about a generalization of a privileged group then you're kind of a big baby, imo.

Anyway, I think you're flat-out wrong. I've seen allies think they deserve a pat on the back time and time again. I think it's pretty natural for people of an oppressed group to be skeptical of people who are part of a group that oppress them even if they have good intentions.

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[cloud_riven]

The obvious answer is splitting hairs and tone argument?

I don't think your skepticism out-skepticisms fleshy's skepticism, nor they yours, but dang if that ain't a weird argument.

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[(Anonymous)]

Online? I can't say. IRL? It does happen, probably more than you'd think. I live in a conservative area, and so a lot of people in the lgbt scene (or the plays I've been in) have had some pretty nasty experiences related to that. As a result, when someone new comes along and says they're an ally, while we do welcome them, we do tend to stay somewhat reserved until we've seen them a bit more. Some people have gotten nasty about that before, and some got nasty when it became obvious no one was going to fall over themselves to thank them for taking that stance. No one getting nasty with them first needed.

So yeah, does happen sadly.

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[sarillia]

I almost lost a friend because my tentative criticism of some of what my straight friend was saying about LGBT stuff was taken as me "attacking" her. I'm a little tired of hearing about how mean all us queers are to the poor allies who just want to help.

Thankfully my friend and I were able to work things out because she was finally able to agree to disagree (something I was willing to do from the start even though I'm supposed to be the intolerant asshole).

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[(Anonymous)]

But those women are stupid. Men have every right to be feminists too. In fact they SHOULD be. That's like saying that white people can't fight for racial equality. Anyone who tells them otherwise is a douchebag.

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[anonymouslyyours]

Are you sure you replied to the right comment.

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[(Anonymous)]

Agh, please don't say "feminist ally."

Feminist itself is not an "identity" like LGBT is. It's a philosophy and belief. Feminist ally sounds stupid, it would be "women ally" or something like that. Guys can be feminist, period.

And frankly, I am a woman and a feminist, and fuck the "feminists" who hate men, or refuse to recognize that gender issues are interconnected between the genders and we should be striving for equality between both). I do get being wary of men who say they are feminists but still treat women like crap - by all means, be critical. But feminism is an important philosophy for both men and women to embrace, and I'm sticking to that.

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[fleshisyummy]

I've seen both "feminist ally" and "feminist" used, and I really don't have a strong opinion on the semantics.

I agree with you that it's harmful for female feminists to throw men in the same bag. I feel like a lot of female feminists characterize all men as being straight White-Anglo protestants living in America when many men are discriminated for their race, sexual orientation, and race and definitely need feminist support as well.

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[nyxelestia]

I despise the term "feminist ally" because it implies that men can never really care about women's rights, and that somehow patriarchy and misogyny are only really women's problems instead of everyone's problems. "Feminist ally" devalues the power of having people of all genders involved in the feminist movements, and it turns feminism from a sociopolitical philosophy into a characteristic identity. IT'S NOT. Equating "being a feminist" with something like "being gay" or "being black" is insulting in both directions. >.

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[herpymcderp]

See my above comment. This is just such an outdated attitude and it's the reason this movement is failing and things like MRA are on the rise. The refusal to acknowledge that men's issues actually matter a whole hell of a lot if we want to succeed in convincing the world that an equal society is a better one is hurting us as a movement, and you'd do well to realize that.

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[(Anonymous)]

No one's a feminist 'ally'. They're either feminists or not, regardless of gender. It's an equality movement, not a separatist one.

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

[fleshisyummy]

Yeah, I was wrong on that point.