fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2584 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2584 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[Danball Senki Wars]

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02.

[Harry Potter]

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03.

[Burn Notice]

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04.

[The Island of Doctor Moreau]

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05.

[Papers, Please]

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06.

[Star Trek: The Next Generation]

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07.

[Pretty Little Liars]

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08.

[KILL LA KILL]

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09.

[Labyrinth, The Hobbit]

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10.

[The Hobbit]

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11.

[The Hobbit]

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12.

[The Kiss of the Spider Woman]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 029 secrets from Secret Submission Post #369.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I think the lubeless sex was deliberate. Molina has a huge masochistic streak, especially in his desire for non-feminine, non-'gay' men, and Valentin would just be 'straight' and clueless. There's a huge deal made about how it hurts Molina and how he kind of wants that. Everything else they do (their laundry, toiletries, meals and clothes) is painstakingly described. Use of any of their precious provisions for lube would be a big deal and is glaring in omission.

But I'm not sure it's actually possible, I mean with the penetrator enjoying it. It's still a shockingly hot scene, but only just. It's the only time I think I've went along with lubeless sex scene. There's so many other ugh things that happen to those guys and their build up is so good.

On re-reading, the long passages where Molina re-tells propaganda films in a dreamy, romantic light are my favourite bits. The first time, I was speed reading, trying to get to the action. On re-reads, I realised they are the action and have several levels to enjoy.

I think one of the triumphs of the book is that the gender politics sill seem relevant, even though both characters have quite outdated views. As long as I avoid the footnotes - there's one in particular about studies of gays that I really wish the author hadn't included. I have to hurriedly ignore it each time. He should have let his work do the talking.

OP here again. You're right about the descriptions - I'd forgotten because it's been a while since I read the book.

It's definitely a book of its time. The footnotes made me raise an eye-brow or two as well, but even with all those flaws, there's so many interesting layers to it, like you said. You really get inside these characters, and all of their biases and flaws as well, and it's fascinating. Back when I first read it, it made me wonder a lot about gender roles and art and role models (since I feel one reason why Molina loved his film heroines so much was because they could express their femininity so freely and he wanted that for himself, a sort of more free gender expression which we are still fighting for).

There were also parts where I wondered whether what happened between them was genuine or the type of desperation that happens for people with little to no prospects in life (particularly Valentin). Like was it love, lust, or just a search for an intimate human bond of some kind, or a little of all of the three?

I really should buy it and re-read, either in English or the Finnish (my native tongue). It's too bad I can't read the Spanish original.

I'm glad you agree about the FOUL FOOTNOTES. It's bothered me for years and I don't know anyone else in RL who's read the book to which I could complain.

The English copy I found was so good that I never considered trying to read the Spanish. I think it's one of those books with quite simple prose (like L'Etranger) which works well in translation.

Valentin's deliberately narrowed his experiences by involving himself in his tight revolutionary world. I think he's supposed to be the more progressive character, the one we look up to, but his life was so focused I had trouble empathising.

I never really asked myself if they were really in love, or how their relationship was. I accepted it as just something that happened in their strange environment. In a way, I didn't care because it was so doomed. I'm not sure Valentin even feels much lust. Isn't the question more whether he's just using Molina? Though of course he uses everyone, it's his political philosophy that the individual must serve the cause. Again, the question of him loving Molina is irrelevant, since he'd sacrifice him anyway.

At the start of the book, the first time I read it, Molina's clinging to gender roles annoyed me. I thought the writer was just going to make him that kind of cliched fictional queer. By the end, I felt full sympathy for Molina and why he was that way. He didn't change but my view of him did.

[ SECRET POST #2584 ]

Re: OP

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