fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #304 ]

[ SECRET POST #304 ]

⌈ Secret Post #304 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 144 secrets from Secret Submission Post #044.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, [ 1 ] not!secrets, 0 not!fandom.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Sunday, November 4th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Are you talking about current Guts and his obsession (and internal fighting with it, since he wants to not abandon Casca), or Golden Age Guts?

I'd say Griffith inspired him to leave, his words made Guts want to come back as an equal. But he has people that are important outside of Griffith ~~Not if the beast inside of him has anything to do with it but~~ He also begins to do things for Casca's sake, too.

But like I said, even that could be debated, and as you pointed out, many of the things Guts has done and much of his motivation for practically everything has been Griffith. It's not a pretty even split between Griffith and Casca.

As for Casca, I don't know. She fell in love with Guts, but still even thought of Griffith right before they made love, and wanted to stay behind for him while she was pushing Guts to leave again. She loved both men (whether it was in different ways or not), but she still worshipped Griffith, though she saw through his god-like exterior into what a flawed-man he was deep down.

I agree with you in the sense that Guts didn't see that. He underestimated his worth to Griffith when he left him, thought Griffith could never fall or need another person, and believed everything Griffith said (Along with Charlotte) on those steps. Casca was always wise to the fact that Griffith was not invincible (at the time :D; ) and that he needed Guts.

Skull Knight did tell Guts that he needed to exist outside of Griffith's fairy tale to beat him, and I think that ties in to what you're saying.

Guts was inspired by Griffith and his life was Griffith-centric, but I do believe he was slowly pulling away from that before the Eclipse. After it, though? He's still as obsessed.

So I guess I can agree with you on that. 8D Sometimes I just get afraid to share my opinions on anything about Guts involving Griffith because I don't want to be labelled some crazed yaoi fangirl or someting :(

But I think Guts prior to the Eclipse, while he still cared for Griffith, was slowly moving toward finding meaning outside of him. But like he said in volume 11, he couldn't blame Casca for thinking of Griffith so much because the one person who couldn't get Griffith out of his head was himself :\

So I agree in a lot of ways with you. I just think Guts has more of a chance of finding meaning outside of Griffith than, let's say someone like Charlotte does. Poor girl, though D:

PLEASE feel free to share your opinions! (Please please please, I don't have anybody to talk to about Berserk!!)

I do agree that he was starting to pull away and form his own sense of self, but I think the Eclipse damaged that (OH MY GOSH, THE EVENTS AT THE ECLIPSE DAMAGED THINGS WHAT A SHOCK), and he reverted, though not as obviously as Caska.

Well, I can't disagree that Gutts has more of a chance to find non-Griffith meaning than Charlotte, but I disagree with the "poor girl" sentiment, if only because I think, as Midland's queen (and former princess), she already has non-Griffith meaning. It's muted, it's very subtle, and I don't think even she's fully aware of it, but it's there, and I do think she'll grow into it.

Even if I do think that she's still a bit of a lovesick puppy. ...I say like it's a bad thing, seeing as I'm a bit of one myself. >______>

I do hope she grows into it. With both Sonia and Charlotte, there is a lot of potential for both girls to find their own meaning and realize who Griffith is deep down. I think Charlotte will be a very capable leader, and I think Griffith gives her strength to do this (because she held on to his image has her saviour so long until the events of albion and afterward, since she was locked up). But with Berserk, possibilities are possibilities, and it's still very hard to predict!! I say 'poor girl' because I generally feel bad for what she went through. That's a personal issue, but I just think what her father did. eughhh. It was hard for me to read that. Which is odd considering how easily I could read all of the other violating atrocoties in Berserk.

I do hope Charlotte grows. But I also think there's a bit of me that fears for her. Mostly because we know very little of Griffith's new incarnation and his motives aside from being King.

I think she's definitely infatuated with him, she even spoke that he was a painting she felt she shouldn't be able to touch. But he was her first crush/ teenage love, and he was all she had to hold on to when she was isolated in the castle. I think it would be hard to come out of that lovesickness, you know?

As for Guts, though the Beast is a factor that is trying to prevent this, and is a manifestation of just how FAR Guts' obsession with Griffith is, I do think he will become his equal before he can exact complete revenge/redemption or however the conflict between the two ends. Right now, both have more important things to do concerning the ladies they are with at the moment.

And thanks XD Berserk is a pretty controversial series, and I always get weary of talking about it with people because I have seen ugly rape debates and whatnot on it that I just wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

Oh Sonia. She charms me in so many ways, though I like Schierke just a smidge better.

Oh, I absolutely agree with you fearing for her. I do, too. There is so much that could go wrong, and yet, I don't think Griffith would harm her, given how important she is to his campaign at this point. As for the future, who knows, but I think that at least for the moment, she's in the safest possible place, physically.

I think at the same time, that idealism for her "painting" may be the very thing that does bring her out of lovesickness. I mean, she's never really been in a battlefield before, she's never, with the exception of her progenitor, had experience with the fouler things in the world, and there's a part of me that can't help but hope being exposed to those things will give her the mental strength to try and protect her ideal. I think that urge to protect (not mother, necessarily, but protect), which seems to be a strong factor in all of Berserk's women, would end up being far stronger than any puppy-crush she might have. That's not to say that she'd give it up, or that it can't turn to real love, but I do think it would eliminate some of the fluffy sighing.

I would really like to see Gutts and the Beast come to terms, or no, more accurately, I'd like to see Gutts acknowledge and accept the Beast. I think that right there is a large factor in his inability to move on, and the sooner he accepts his own darkness, the sooner he can become Griffith's equal. (Does that make sense?)

I love how controversial Berserk is, and I love all the issues that are woven into it. Though some of the debates just need to die. There's only so much that can be said on some topics, really, and there's so much more to talk about and debate (obviously!) than that one subject.

I am awaiting Sonia's and Schierke's meeting again. I think both girls could make great friends and I think they could learn a lot from each other! I adore both, though. ♥

Charlotte's character is so intruiging because of how many different ways it can go. For right now, I agree with you. She's definitely safe. And although I think Griffith only sees her as someone useful and important to his dream, I don't really think he's in love with her. Hell, for all we know, the only human feelins he really has thus far are tied to the fetus in which the body he is now hosted in belongs to. Of course, he could also be blaming those feelings on the child, but that's speculation and until I see proof otherwise, I'll go with the former. The only person I'd wager he ever really acknowledged he loved on a level was Guts, and even as a friend, that was something Griffith couldn't handle. Of course, there's so much more to it than that. He WAS affectionate toward Casca before, and he WAS thankful when Charlotte took that arrow for him.

But with Charlotte, I don't think Griffith would intentionally hurt her...at least not right now. Who knows? We tend to think of Griffith as what he did when he was his Femto incarnate at the Eclipse, but that was a very personal and petty begrudging (and inhumane) act he did against Guts and Casca. He has nothing personal against charlotte, so I can't see him hurting her. Maybe leaving her ignored, or discarding her once he sees no more use for her? Or maybe just leaving her by his side? These are all possibilities, but as of now he's been nothing but charming and charismatic to her and everyone around him.

I do believe Charlotte will find strength and resolve in her character. I think she has already come to care about Griffith, as so many people have, because he means so much to her (and others). He's a savior figure, and they all have faith in him. Charlotte might grow to really love him, but a part of me would find it very interesting if she were to be conflicted between her devotion and dedication to him, and her realization of what he truly is deep down.

But really, she could also just have a really horrible end to her character, who knows?

I agree with you SHJAWEHJWE SO SO SO Hard on Guts accepting the Beast. This is a part of him that he cannot ignore, for it is not only the pain that Griffith brought on him, but I feel it is an accumulation of the pain he's felt in his life, regardless. The beast actually looks like Gambino's dog, ineresting enough, and when Guts had that breakdown in front of Casca he stated that Gambino always loved that dog more than him, so I think it's an odd psychological thing...the Beast kind of resembles it, but it could be coincidence.

I think Guts needs to accept that dark side of himself, too. What he wishes for and what Casca wishes for may be different, but he has a personal duty to make someone acknowledge the pain they made him feel.

I think Guts needs to accept that dark side of himself, too. What he wishes for and what Casca wishes for may be different, but he has a personal duty to make someone acknowledge the pain they made him feel.

And I also think he is afraid of embracing this darkness because he's afraid of making more mistakes, or being like Griffith in any way. He's afraid of stopping at nothing to get to his goal, because it reminds him of Griffith.

I completely agree with that assessment, but at the same time, I wonder if resisting it as much as he does actually makes him more prone to making Griffith-like mistakes, rather than less. Eventually, he's going to snap, and I think we're starting to see that coming.

I AM GETTING REALLY TIRED OF PROVING I'M A HUMAN.

YOU CAN UN-ANONYMOUS IF YOU WANT XD Or you can just give up. But I really loved this discussion. So lame how analyzing a series can make me so happy, rofl.

And yes, more agreement with you, because Griffith even said that the more he pushed away certain aspects of himself, the more cold he became. Griffith never wanted to end up the way he did (caring about people, having a breakdown just because a man leaves him), but look where that got him. And we see it happening with Guts too D:

I COULD and I think I will in a highly roundabout way, because I am lame like that.

I could go on for hours about the parallels between those two, I really could! It's so funny how their Yin and Yang is less YinYang and more ablkjwtaoiublkjawtlkjtwoiuba.

Okay, now I know that didn't make sense. (I blame the weather. Also, I am tired.)

Whomever you are, I am loving this so much and haven't really seen someone hold such similar views to mine on the series in a long time. Yet at the same time, you also got me to rethink something I said/a notion I held, and I'm glad I eventually clarified on it.

And and yeah. Awesome anonymous is awesome.

Isn't it great how a discussion that starts as one thing can end up so completely far away from where it began? Muahaha. It's so great talking to someone who also shares a lot of my views, and it's even better talking to someone who makes me reconsider and solidify my reasoning for them! Hurrah for reasoned discussion!

We are anonymous. We are legion.

I can only say I agree with you on that so many ways, so I'll just say I agree with you in so many ways! (hahahaha)

Yes! So glad I'm not the only one to notice the dog!

You know, I think in a way, the entire series is about Gutts coming to terms with the way Gambino treated him, and learning to see himself as a human being despite that. Alternatively, the entire series is about Gutts and his issues with masculinity/men. Ahem.

Well, I think what he wishes for and what Caska wishes for may be different on the surface, but I think either way in the end, they'll end up being very much the same, considering how badly the both of them want the people around them to be happy, despite cost to themselves. Make sense?

You know, I think in a way, the entire series is about Gutts coming to terms with the way Gambino treated him, and learning to see himself as a human being despite that. Alternatively, the entire series is about Gutts and his issues with masculinity/men. Ahem.

I agree so much. There are just so many shades to this series, so it's so hard to find someone who doesn't just generalize it into a good guy vs bad guy thing, a "GUTS AND CASCA NEED TO SEEK REVENGE AND CUT GRIFFITHS HEAD OFF THEN THEYLL BE HAPPY LOLOL" kind of thing I see so many fanboys (and some fangirls) thinking.

And yeah, that makes a lot of sense, and I also agree with it. I think that while Guts and Casca might not approach what they want in the same way, and it might lead to them chasing different things, they want similar things for each other and the people they care about in the end. I also think it's kind of beautiful poetic justice that the two people Griffith ended up screwing over so hard are now his parents in a weird way.

Gahhh, I never have these kinds of discussions!

I think the manga is also a pretty fascinating commentary on the nature of love, both romantic and not, all around. The interactions between all the characters are amazing, and all the relationships are amazing to watch develop, grow, fall apart. There's a lot more to Berserk than the surface level, and I know somebody out there is looking at this saying "LOL YOU RETARD, IT'S A FUCKING MANGA, STOP READING INTO IT SO MUCH", but I say that person has not studied up on his or her mythology and the symbolism found in it. The layers are there, just waiting to be peeled back. There's so much and I love it!

Yes! That is the best poetic justice of all! I squealed so hard, I admit it.

I know! The fandom lacks these kinds of discussions! I'm so glad to have one! (Yaaay, fandomsecrets!)

Well, Miura has shown great knowledge in philosophy (With his causality themes and his "Idea of Evil" a la Aristotle) so I think he tries to incorporate these deep themes into this manga. He plans on it going on for a long while so I think this is his life's work and he's pouring a lot into it, it's not just fanservice and power levels and romance.

And yes, it's beautiful commentary on all kinds of love (the love between Griffith and Guts comes to mind, sad to say fandom either reduces it to a bunch of gay jokes or just thinks it was pure rivalry all along, wtf?), faith, death, and just human nature in general.

I think Miura has also shown a strong ability to take ideas and adapt them beautifully to his own world. (As important: he obviously does and applies huge amounts of historical research. It's so refreshing.) I love that you can see just how much he not only loves the series as a whole, but individual characters. I also love that although he is clearly appreciative of his fanbase, he does not pander to it, and that makes such a huge difference to me.

It's also such a good commentary on the nature of love and it's all-consuming nature. (Not to say that the gay jokes aren't amusing at times, I admit.) The sheer amount of thought and depth in the series tells me that this is one that's going to become a classic--it's already halfway there, and in terms of storytelling, it ranks far above the rest.

I also like seeing his art adapt and change. He wasn't bad in the beginning, but compared to his work now? Wow.

Oh, I've done my fair share of gay jokes about those two (see icon), and I'd be lying if I didn't get fangirly whenever they even think about each other..but it's just a bit irritating when I meet girls who talk about it like it's a shonen-ai series and the girls don't exist, eugh.

It definitely is going to be a classic, and if you think about how far it has to go...I can easily see it reaching 100 volumes, as crazy as that sounds. Maybe a bit less, or a bit more.

New episode comes out November 9th!! ♥

I also love that although he is clearly appreciative of his fanbase, he does not pander to it, and that makes such a huge difference to me.

And this is the beautiful thing about seinen manga, and why I will never get the satisfaction I get reading Berserk in a series like Naruto or Bleach D:

Oh, I'd say 100 volumes easy, especially if you consider how far the Conan series has gone, and how long Guin Saga is. (Which I believe is still going? I can't recall.) Considering his influences, I'd be surprised if it's less than 60-70 volumes. Really surprised.

Yay, new episode!! I can't wait! (Look, I'm wiggling with glee.)

I enjoy Naruto and Bleach, but they're more like marshmallows in hot cocoa to me. Berserk is like a fine meal made by excellent chefs. It may be heavy, and at times, the dishes may be too hot to eat right away, but if you have a little patience and take your time to savour it, it's the most satisfying thing in the world.

I am also a Naruto and Bleach fan, but oh gosh do I have gripes with the writing and fanservice, so I just take it with a grain of salt.

And I am so damn excited about the new episode switching over to Griffith and co. ♥ We can see more Charlotte and hopefully more Sonia, too, since the title is talking about a 'precognitive' dream!

Holy shit, it's a Berserk discussion on fandomsecrets ;∀; I am so touched.

Actually I just wanted to say I can't stop staring at your icon and my eyes are probably going to fall out now.

The world needs more Berserk. Period. D: I'm glad I'm not the only fan ♥ that wants to discuss it in depth!!

ALSO YES. MY ICON IS AMAZING, THANK YOU.

I think I feel the same about your icon. Holy crap.

...totally posting waaay after the discussion was over, here, but the entire thread was fabulous and your icon is made of WIN! (I don't think I've ever seen an Oniisama e icon. O.o)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #304 ]

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