[ SECRET POST #2604 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2604 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Star Trek: The Next Generation]


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03.
[Sherlock BBC]


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04.
[Zero Escape: Virtue's Last Reward]


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05.
[Elementary]


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06.
[SPN]


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07.
[Pacific Rim]


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08.
[Harry Potter]


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09.
[Game of Thrones]


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10.
[Thor: Dark World]


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11.
[Breaking Bad]


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12.
[My Neighbor Totoro]


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13.
[Robocop]


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14.
[Unsounded]


















Notes:

Sorry about the late!

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 051 secrets from Secret Submission Post #372.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[ariakas]

It implicitly gives permission to just have one female character/The Girl of the group, provided she gets her own backstory. It does absolutely nothing to improve the staggering lack of female representation in the industry.

I think it's fine for films like, say, Gravity where there are only two or three characters period, but when there's only one major female character in a huge cast that is just fucking tiresome, even if the one woman is awesome.

[blunderbuss]

What? No it doesn't. That's like saying the Bechdel Test gives permission for a story to have a bunch of shallow female background characters as long as they talk to each other for one or two lines. It sure as hell doesn't prevent tokenism or having male-heavy casts, because many films pass the test but still have only one female character that matters.

The Bechdel Test and the Mako Mori Test were designed to do two different things, so of course neither rule fixes the problem that the other was made for. If the MMT is a bad rule because it can't fix every problem with female characters, then the BT sure as hell a bad rule too.

[ariakas]

That's like saying the Bechdel Test gives permission for a story to have a bunch of shallow female background characters as long as they talk to each other for one or two lines.

But... that's exactly what it does, inherently. It's just as flawed as the Mako Mori test in this regard. I never said it wasn't. If there's a bunch of shallow female characters who talk to each other about something other than a man, but otherwise trivial or stereotypical topics, it passes the Bechdel Test. If a cast has The Girl/Smurfette in a whole cast of men, but it gives her an independent story arc, it passes the Mako Mori test.

You asked "what's wrong with the Mako Mori test", and I gave you an answer. That it was flawed, and why. I Never said "the Mako Mori test sux and the Bechdel test rulz", which seems to be what you're responding too.

[blunderbuss]

I Never said "the Mako Mori test sux and the Bechdel test rulz", which seems to be what you're responding too.

Sorry, that was my fault. Your choice of the words 'gives permission' gave me the impression that the Mako Mori Test was encouraging or re-enforcing sexist writing while the Bechdel Test did not.

And you're right, that is the MMT's central flaw, and it's an important flaw to point out. Thanks for answering me despite my lack of reading comprehension. :P

[ariakas]

Hahah I thought that might have been the misunderstanding there. I've seen a lot of Bechdel versus Mako Mori debate out there, but that wasn't where I was going with it.

But their flaws aside, I think one excellent thing the Bechdel test does - as many others have pointed out - is indicate overall trends across many movies, and note how 50% of the population becomes 17% on screen.

The Mako Mori test, on the other hand, I think is great at indicating the creator's view on women. Just having a female character does not a feminist creator make - it might be a cynical "this will attract female viewers" or a marketing "this needs a romance, and gays are icky", or a token "eh, they need The Chick" decision - but if the creator goes and fleshes her out with a backstory and a narrative arc, we know s/he gives a shit about the character. Whether those arcs are pandering or stereotypical or preachy, or they're inspiring and thoughtful and actualized, we learn something about their views. If there's no character like that, we learn nothing.