fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2605 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2605 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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02.

[Slenderman]

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03.

[Saints Row 3]

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04.

[Doctor Who]

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05.

[Welcome to Night Vale, My Mad Fat Diary]

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06.

[The Middle]

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07.

[Steven Universe]

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08.

[Kyuhyun and Seohyun]

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09.

[Disney]

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10.

[Teen Wolf]

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11.

[Thor: Dark World]

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12.

[The Avengers/Clark Gregg]

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13.

[Teen Wolf]

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14.

[Hannibal]

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15.

[Fate/Stay Night]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 036 secrets from Secret Submission Post #372.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I'm...not sure we're disagreeing here? Religion, created by people to influence other people, can't function apart from people, therefore religion as a concept is not to blame for what people made and use it for.

What I'm arguing is that religion is nothing more than a tool and that people are responsible for its use. You seem to think I'm arguing that it's a harmless tool, when I first compared it to a knife used to kill.

Tool implies intentionality.

I'm saying that whilst it is a product of people, it exists outside the control of anyone, and is rarely an intentional powerstructure used for control.

The analogy I suppose, would be a pebble thrown by a person that's become an avalanche, more so then a knife swung in the direction of ones choosing.

Oh, okay, yeah, we disagree on that. People aren't insensate rocks who have no thought or ability or awareness of gravity. No one was forced to roll down the hill in response to that first pebble, that first person who had an idea, they chose to roll and then chose to push others down the hill, turning into an avalanche that could only keep going so long as people kept choosing to follow it, generation after generation. When they stop doing that, the avalanche of religion stops and turns into myth, or evolves into a new idea that someone had to begin and continue to propagate. If religion was an independent force of nature, if people couldn't choose, then I doubt atheists could question and resist it.

Yiis. Now we're getting to the meat of things.

You're right in that the analogy is to an extend reductive. However, I think you're ignoring how difficult it can be to set aside a belief system which you've been hounded with since birth, and is infused into almost everything you do.

Some people do manage it certainly, but we're all a product of our culture and enviroment down to the smallest infleunces, and it all becomes self perpetuating.

By the time you do have peope questioning everything is so ingrained, and so detached from the source it's impossible to blame any one person because it's all interlinked in a way that puts multiple influences on every agent within the system.

Ergo, it's fair to talk of it as seperate from solely human infleunce, it's become a complex within itself. Which applies to plenty of other such concepts (the patriarchy for example can't be boiled down to just being simple human choice and that only people are to blame).

And what a tasty meat it is!

I don't deny that it's incredibly difficult for the very reasons you say, but the hounding and the infusing of religion into everything we do comes from other people continuing to push it, not from thin air, regardless of people knowing why they're doing it, or even that they're doing it. Our culture is built by individuals, the complex that sustains religion is a complex of human beings and our interactions. It can't be separated from us because it is us, and just because you can't blame us for what someone thousands of years ago started, doesn't it make it any less our responsibility to stop and ask ourselves "Why?"

I suppose what it comes down to is what it means for any idea to be self-perpetuating - that is, for it to pass from person to person without the individual's initial awareness that they're even absorbing and distributing it. My opinion is that lack of awareness and incapability of awareness are two different things. Because people are able to become aware and to cease perpetuation, whereas religion is not able to become aware and cease perpetuating itself, the power and therefore the responsibility is ours, and therefore discussing religion apart from human influence strikes me as a futile endeavor. It can be done, sure, just like we can discuss an avalanche or a knife apart from the person who threw the pebble or swung the knife, but what's the use of it in actually solving anything? Of course, if we're talking just for the sake of talking, then, sure, whatever. It just annoys me when someone uses that aimless talking to come to an end like "Eliminate religion, and everything about the human tendency to accept and perpetuate ideas without examining them will vanish". When, with non-religious complexes like patriarchy, that is obviously untrue.

[ SECRET POST #2605 ]

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