fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2628 ]

[ SECRET POST #2628 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2628 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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06. [repeat]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

07. [SPOILERS for Sherlock]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

08. [SPOILERS for The Wayfarer Redemption series/Sinner]
[WARNING for rape/incest]

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09. [WARNING for suicide]

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10. [WARNING for suicide]

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11. [WARNING for rape/abuse/etc (unmarked by OP, but I'd assume it applies)]

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12. [WARNING for rape]

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13. [WARNING for eating disorders]

[Bleach]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #375.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Own your preferences. If you want to read dark!fic and specifically rape!fic, more power to you. You don't have to justify your fantasy life to anyone. But don't hide behind some bullshit rationalization. When you do the latter, other fans (rightly) feel judged and defensive. They didn't write this stuff for you to study it, and they don't like being psychoanalyzed as a result. You're unwittingly walking into a conversation that has historically involved psychologists asserting that being a fan in the first place is a sign of arrested development, failure or inability to form meaningful interpersonal relationships, and a tenous grasp on reality. Basically, psychology has abused its authority before to cusorily study fannishness, and then announce to the world that we're mentally ill. So, while I can hear that your complaint isn't explicitly accusing us of being delusional, please bear in mind that there are pragmatic reasons why people are bristling over it.

Now, my guess is that if you asked around, fans would be willing to direct you to the more played-straight-as-normative-trauma rapefics. They do exist, and some people only read that kind. Some people are very squicked and triggered by everything that isn't the "hot showers, PTSD, and lifelong damage" depiction of rape as a fate worse than death. Also, the other thing that's worth considering is that not every person (or character) reacts to rape the same way. The side of rape that psychology gets a good look at is the experience of the subset of people who really, really are not coping, in the same way that hospitals get the subset of people in accidents who need sophisticated help. There is nothing weak or invalid about getting seriously hurt. But the same way that not everyone who's been in an accident needs casts and blood transfusions, not everyone who's been raped is going to go to pieces over it. People are not all alike, and they don't all have the same ideas or feelings about what's important. And some of the exceptions write stories that don't map onto what you've been taught about rape because this is the space where they can play with their own experience, without feeling like just by existing and not fitting the type they might be making life hard for some rape survivor who needs all the help available. People who are technically survivors but didn't go through much emotional upheaval normally don't bring up their experience when "no pity, no shame, no silence" memes go up, because they don't feel scarred and they don't want to let their resilience (or good luck) be used to shame other survivors. And aside from both of these things, there are the rape *fantasies* which are something else entirely, and not trying to be serious. I'll get to those, but first I want to point out that what you're stating so breathlessly, as if you had access to special, inside information, is actually so widely accepted that I doubt any educated, Western reader or writer isn't already completely aware of it. Seriously. Many of us know people personally who have gone through that kind of an ego-shattering experience with rape, and most of us paid close attention to it, regardless. If that's not what fans are writing, it definitely isn't because the idea that rape can cause awful, lasting trauma is news to them.

Fanfic is not trivializing anyone's experience. Trauma does not gain or lose validity as a result of another person writing fiction (thank goodness), and only douches think rape can be trivialized in the first place. Instead of criticizing fics that you think shouldn't exist, it would be great if you would ask honest questions, or just flat-out give other fans the benefit of the doubt and assume they have good reasons, even if you don't understand them. Because we do, and we're sick to death of clueless but concerned people trying to police how women write their own goddamn sex fantasies.

These are some very good points. And

You're unwittingly walking into a conversation that has historically involved psychologists asserting that being a fan in the first place is a sign of arrested development, failure or inability to form meaningful interpersonal relationships, and a tenous grasp on reality.

focuses on the fact that academia, especially when it comes to human diversity, can sometimes get it pretty damn wrong. It's not the alpha and omega of understanding all human experience, though naturally it thinks it is.

AYRT

Yes. I couldn't have put that any better than you did.

You don't have to treat me like a child because I know that everyone deals with trauma differently and no two people react the exact same way. All I was saying was that a lot of writer's seemed to lump the two (rape-fantasy and actual rape) together or they forgot to label it correctly which meant that I started to read what I thought was a psychological fic only to discover that it was yet another fantasy. I know that there is a difference I'm just tired of seeing writers blanket classify it all instead of separating the fantasy and reality in their warnings. I wasn't trying to accuse anyone and I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone else. I'm not saying this fic shouldn't exist or trying to censor anyone, I was just saying that it bothered me. I'm sure you have certain genres/pairings/what have you, that bother you as well.

Plus, saying that rape culture can't be trivialized is wrong. It's trivialized every time someone says "you're so raped" or treated as a joke, or something along those lines. Treating something like this in that manner is wrong on so many levels but that doesn't mean that it can't be trivialized. Guess this entire paragraph makes me a douche.

a lot of writer's seemed to lump the two (rape-fantasy and actual rape) together or they forgot to label it correctly which meant that I started to read what I thought was a psychological fic only to discover that it was yet another fantasy.

I think your problem is that you're reading fanfic, where it's pretty much idfic, and people aren't generally *trying* to be strict about which classification. People generally understand that rapefic is going to have fantasy iddy elements, even when it seems "realistic". I really do not get from fanfic the sense that writers at all commonly claim to be realistic about it, and it's one of the tropes I don't mind reading.

You seem to be disturbed that it's all mixed up but in fanfic, that's accepted as okay. We know it's fantasy, and if it isn't a fantasy about rape per se, it's a fantasy about the tough suffering hero recovering from it and going through all sorts of delicious trauma.

If that makes you sick, then stay the fuck away from fanfic. You are not going to get "psychological" fic. You are not going to get "activist" anti-rape fic. You are severely underestimating the fanfic community. You sound pretty naive and didactic to me.

DA

All I was saying was that a lot of writer's seemed to lump the two (rape-fantasy and actual rape) together or they forgot to label it correctly which meant that I started to read what I thought was a psychological fic only to discover that it was yet another fantasy. I know that there is a difference I'm just tired of seeing writers blanket classify it all instead of separating the fantasy and reality in their warnings.

That's not at all what your secret said, though. Your secret was complaining that rape in fanfic is unrealistically written, not that it's mislabeled.

For the record, I completely agree with you that fandom needs to be better about how it labels rapefic. For every author I've seen who clearly and accurately tags for the precise variety of nonconsent in her fic, there are a dozen who mislabel it (usually by downplaying its severity; I have read way too many stories tagged "mildly dubious consent" in which the sex was completely nonconsensual, no "mildly dubious" about it). And, yes, it would be a good thing if more people distinguished between fantastical and realistic portrayals of rape and let readers know upfront which one their fic contains. Maybe lead with that complaint next time, though, rather than scolding fanfic writers for getting their fantasies all over your chosen field of study.

And on that topic, I think you're disregarding how useful these fics could potentially be to someone with an academic interest in people's psychological responses to rape. Are 99% of rapefics unrealistic? Yes, unquestionably. But why are they unrealistic in these particular ways, and what are authors and readers getting out of them, and how do these widely shared fantasies reflect people's real-life fears and concerns? These are complicated questions, and it's hard to get concrete data for them without asking people in fandom a lot of intrusive questions (which I don't recommend you doing, btw; at least not until you've gotten proper instruction in how to conduct ethical surveys, which hopefully you will in your college psych classes), but they're still worth thinking about now.

Okay, look. I didn't mean to be condescending. What I actually am is tired of hearing a million variations of the complaint you posted, but because people were being pretty snippy to you in the comments, I figured moar emotional response would not be helpful. And while "each person is different" is a widely accepted idea when it's floating in space, it's damn hard to apply well in fields that sort of count on people reacting in predictable, previously studied and documented ways.

The line between fact and fiction in fan-fiction is intentionally blurry, because this allows it to be a space where people can express themselves without talking about themselves. And, ideally, without being aggressively policed. If you're trying to separate rapes-based-on-things-that-actually-happened from rapes-fans-made-up-for-plot, you're going to face immense resistance from everyone involved, because it breaks their privacy. I don't think anyone should have the right to demand that, even if it would make it easier for them to find what they want to read. It's like asking people to state their RL sexual history so that you can filter out the unrealistic porn - no one should have to volunteer that information just to write fiction.

(AYRT)

And Re trivialization: people who believe rape stops being important because some random person threw the word around when it wasn't warranted aren't taking rape seriously. It's not that the person making the joke "broke" the validity of rape (though often that's exactly what they're trying to do). It's that people who are looking for excuses to say rape shouldn't matter ... find flimsy excuses to claim that rape shouldn't matter. Trying to control how other people use words is unnecessary and not really possible. Holding them accountable if they act like fiction or comedy absolves them from caring about the consequences of real abuse and trauma works better. That's what I meant, before.

Martin Freeman is still working and his elf rape jokes are still funny, yo.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2628 ]

Late, but definitely have something to add.

Re: Late, but definitely have something to add.

no subject

Re: Late, but definitely have something to add. (OP here.)

Re: Late, but definitely have something to add. (OP here.)

Re: Late, but definitely have something to add. (OP here.)

Re: Late, but definitely have something to add. (OP here.)

There should be an AYRT somewhere in the preceding post.

Re: There should be an AYRT somewhere in the preceding post.