fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2638 ]

[ SECRET POST #2638 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2638 ⌋

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Got into a ridiculous debate this morning (specifically about whether Animorphs counted as one). I'm not bringing it up again if my debator doesn't, but I was curious what other people thought, in general.

For me, it has at least a prominent and oppressive government presence, or none to the main character. In regards to the latter, the government still exists, but you couldn't tell from the fragmented, broken world the main character might be surviving in.

Everything has to be terrible. That's my only requirement.

If that's the only standard you're using, then 50% of all fiction ever is dystopian.

Well, that is the dictionary definition, so...

what dictionary are you using because I googled the definition and it says

dys·to·pi·a
disˈtōpēə/
noun
1.
an imagined place or state in which everything is unpleasant or bad, typically a totalitarian or environmentally degraded one.

DA

Uh. This kind of does essentially paraphrase to 'everything is terrible', really? Adds on 'typically totalitarian or environmental', but the base definition is still 'terrible' and not much else.

no not really because it has to be an imagined place

DA

So Middle Earth under Sauron is a dystopia?? Um, no.

Well, it might have been had Sauron won.

nayrt. Yes, it was a pending dystopia.

I wouldn't count Animorphs as one because that's our current world with an outside force causing problems. I say a dystopia is about the society the characters live in itself being a major antagonist. If the Yeerks had won and that world was where the story took place, then I would call Animorphs a dystopia.

I agree with this. They were fighting a war to prevent dystopia, but the world they were living in was not one.

everyone talks about how wonderful their society is and it really does seem perfect

but there's a cost

like the reason it's perfect is they killed off a group of people they saw as imperfect

or it's perfect because creativity has been completely stifled and the government or whatever does all the thinking for everyone

or there is no pizza

idk if Animorphs is one? I didn't finish the books actually but it took place on regular Earth that was being invaded by aliens, yeah? There wasn't any utopia illusion. I think the Animorphs-verse Atlantis qualified but I don't remember the details so I might be wrong.

Edited 2014-03-24 23:27 (UTC)

There are quite a few different ways to do dystopia. One of the more common ones involve corporations in control of (or replacing) government entities, at war with other corporations, while colourful and violent youth gangs roam the streets. Another one is the fake utopia where everything seems perfect but if you scratch the surface a little it's really ugly and broken.

I think my standard definition for a dystopia is that people are oppressed somehow, what authority there is tends to be, either covertly or overtly, abusive, corrupt and all-encompassing, and behaviour is controlled, either through physical force, more subtle methods like drugs, or simple social engineering (using advertising and propaganda to get people to do what you want.) Other factors, such as environmental conditions, are secondary.

I'd say the general overall factor is that there is no real hope for a better future. Any world in which all hope has been lost by at least most of the people living in it for a tomorrow brighter than today ('keep the status quo' or 'do what authorities tell you' don't count as 'hope/brighter'), is a dystopia.

How that manifests (physically, socially, psychologically, et cetera) can be in any number of ways! The details don't actually matter, so long as there's a clear "abandon all hope, ye who enter here" feel to the world.

Edited 2014-03-24 23:43 (UTC)

Dystopia with centralized ruling class
I. The rights of the common man have been taken away by fascist ruling class. (Mind you this could be in the form of government like with The Hunger Games or the private sector with Jennifer Government.
A. The common man must be trapped within his own social status which will always far lower than the ruling class. (He/She is often a type of slave/serf/drone.) He may not be able to move up. He may be able to go to a lower status but, again, never one above.
B. The ruling class owns all (or almost all) forms of information.

Dystopia without centralized ruling class
I. Modern tech is gone. Be it taken away or made useless
A. Man has reverted to using pre-Industrial Revolution tech

II. The ruling class is broken up to warlords who control small territories. (For example, Revolution where the US has been broken up to half a dozen territories.)

III. Because modern tech is gone and warlords rule, people learn to fight before they learn how to read.
A. Guns are usually the only tech that hasn't been lost.
B. People are often in war with other territories for basic supplies like food or medicine.

A world or society where the fundamental structural elements, the most basic values and operations of the society, are totally and irreparably at odds with human happiness.

I like this as a good, broad definition. Definitions that focus on government and other strict structures leave out stories like The Road.

Very heavy government presence coupled with unfair or out-of-proportion sentences for specific crimes (bonus points of those crimes are not criminal-evil crimes.

I'm willing to call something a dystopia if 1) the society/government/authority/etc. itself is the biggest villain in the story and 2) there's a real possibility there won't ever be a "happy ending". Animorphs was about preventing a dystopia, maybe, but it never actually turned into one.

I think most strictly a dystopia is a "failed utopia" or "selective utopia." The superficially high quality of life comes at the expense of significant freedoms (Brazil) or through the violent oppression of others (Hunger Games). Post-apocalyptic lit is similar and often packaged together, but a slightly different thing.

I'm just sad I miss your original debate...

Fun fact: Harry Potter is a dystopia.

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[ SECRET POST #2638 ]

What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?

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Re: What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?

Re: What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?

Re: What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?

Re: What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?

Re: What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?

Re: What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?

Re: What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?

Re: What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?

Re: What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?

Re: What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?

Re: What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?

Re: What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?

Re: What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?

Re: What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?

Re: What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?

Re: What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?

Re: What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?

Re: What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?

Re: What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?

Re: What are the essential elements for a setting to be a dystopia?