[ SECRET POST #2641 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2641 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 018 secrets from Secret Submission Post #377.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[sarillia]

I'm sorry that this is the only statement I made that even comes close to expressing that I do think that Americancentrism is bad: There are some great criticisms that are hard to take seriously because they end up going too far. It obviously wasn't enough.

I just think it's ridiculous that people are replacing an American context with another one that is equally irrelevant. People are talking about the skin tones of people in southern Europe as though that is any more relevant to GoT than America.

I don't think that anyone who brings up that the way things work in America isn't the only way racism works is being ridiculous but some people start out making that reasonable argument and then veer off into talking about their own country even though we're talking about GoT and they don't live in any of the places that this situation is inspired by.

[(Anonymous)]

I've always liked your comments, and I like them even more in this thread. Thank you for always being a reasonable, articulate and well-thought out commenter. Sometimes I want to comment but just end up realizing you said it better, with much more grace and poise, than I ever could!

[sarillia]

Thank you. That's very flattering. I obviously wasn't that articulate in the beginning of this thread though and I wouldn't blame anyone who came along to disagree with you.

[(Anonymous)]

I think that particular point came about when people mentioned the extra actors themselves and the fact they're Moroccan, so then we're dealing with real-life people who are participating in a shoot, instead of the imaginary culture from the show. I think in that case it's important to keep in mind that you can't speak in definite terms about the actors' experiences and how they see themselves. And I think some people are way too willing to dismiss the fact the actors probably don't feel oppressed in their own country. The "conversation" is... a mess by this point tho, and I admit I brought in some of my annoyances independent of what has been said in other threads, so I apologize if I was rude. I tend to be very wary of people who want to define what people think about their race/ethnicity, because a lot tend to turn around and try to dismiss your opinion in some way if you don't agree with them.

But it's a mess honestly. That's internet arguments for you I guess.

[sarillia]

That's a good point about the extras in that scene. Morocco at least was a fair thing to be talking about if we're going to be talking about the race of the people in the scene. I still question the people talking about southern Europe though, and I've noticed a trend of that coming up a lot whenever people start talking about what counts as "POC".

I definitely agree that people need to stop telling people that they are oppressed when they say they aren't.

I don't know which comments were yours but I wasn't bothered by anyone who replied to me, so don't worry.

[(Anonymous)]

[(Anonymous)]

Don't apologize to these whiners. Nobody who talks about Americentrism on Fandom Secrets uses that word correctly. Nothing is Americentrist about applying American views to discussions of racism in Western media because it harms and oppresses nobody. The worst thing it does is annoy non Americans.

[(Anonymous)]

Ignorant American coming to save the day! Because Americacentric views are pure and not oppressive at all!

[(Anonymous)]

This.

[(Anonymous)]

^ And this is what privilege looks like.

[(Anonymous)]

The worst thing it does is annoy non Americans.

Those lowly non Americans. Yay racism and xenophobia.

[sarillia]

Even if it was merely annoying, I would still be fine with people calling me on it. It's no big deal to acknowledge that not everyone lives in the US and that things are different outside of this country.

[(Anonymous)]

Gee, thanks Mom

[(Anonymous)]

'Cause, gosh, annoying (or offending) non-Americans is totally cool. And that attitude isn't Americentrist at all.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, who cares about the other 95% of the world's population?

[(Anonymous)]

Is an American context entirely irrelevant?

The show airs on an American network, is run by American producers and directors, and is based on books by an American author; if you're looking at things from an in-universe perspective, then yeah, any real world country is going to be a poor equivalent, but if you're considering things through a Doylist lens rather than a Watsonian one, then I don't think it's inappropriate to center the cultural context that the creators come from.

[(Anonymous)]

The show airs all over the world and in the case of several countries it airs simultaneously or near-simultaneously as the US broadcast. None of the filming locations, set filming or post-production is done in the US. The overwhelming majority of cast, crew and production people are not American. A fair chunk of the money used to make it is not American. It's listed as a US UK co-production. So, it can't be regarded as merely American.

[(Anonymous)]

Doesn't really change the fact that the universe itself was created by an American and most of the writers/producers are American, so that is obviously going to shape the context.