fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2651 ]

[ SECRET POST #2651 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2651 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 051 secrets from Secret Submission Post #379.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

As an artist, I can assure you that art supplies get quite pricey. Sure, at its most basic you can use just a pencil and scrap paper, but the quality of what you produce won't be that great. You're going to need a pen to ink it and colored pencils or markers to color it, and trust me-- with art supplies, you get what you pay for. There's a reason Prismacolors and Copics are held up as some of the best-quality markers you can buy. Having used those and used cheapo Crayolas and no-brand markers, there's really no comparison quality-wise. Sure, you can use the cheap stuff, but no one wants to pay for something drawn on scrap paper and colored with crappy markers. If you're doing any amount of art, it can get very expensive very quickly.

Meanwhile, with fanfiction, I write that in Microsoft Word, which came with my computer for free. It doesn't run out and I don't need to replace it, so I spend a grand total of $0 to write fanfic.

There really isn't any comparison there at all.

But that's the whole point. When people talk about artists' tools, they're more realistic about what artists actually use, but when the talk turns to writing all of a sudden it's oh, you don't need anything except the most basic programs and word processors and nothing else.

How about if we want something more suited to the task than Microsoft Word? How about if we need to do research that can't be done online? How about the cost of paper, printing and binding fanfiction to produce a hard copy of our work the way you require more expensive art supplies to produce a decent hard copy of your work?

But more importantly, why does the fact that your work (maybe) costs more means you can charge whatever you like for it, but writers can't charge anything at all for fanfiction?

Who uses something besides Word or Open Office to write fic, though? I literally do not know a single person who needs or uses more than that. I also don't know anyone whose research for fic is more involved than looking things up on the internet or occasionally going to a library if that's absolutely necessary, nor do I know of anyone who creates hard copies of their fanfic.

You're really stretching here.

All the artists I know use copier paper and cheap colored pencils for their art, so why would any artist need more than that?

(The above isn't true, but see how ridiculous that sounds when you apply your argument to art instead of just writing?)

no, you're the one who sounds ridiculous here.

show me a person who uses something fancier than a basic word processing program for their writing. go ahead, i'm waiting. hell, i know plenty of people who still handwrite their stuff in notebooks and type it up later.

you're so desperate to make yourself a martyr that you're just coming off as stupid.

Yes, but yours sounds ridiculous because it is ridiculous. Because it's some serious false equivalency. It would be like saying that artists have to spend as much as musicians to practice their craft on a sellable level. Both are creating something, sure, but to create something of a quality that you can generally sell to the public, you have to invest in your materials, and one of them (in this case, music) has way more expensive materials and set-up fees.

All the examples of things you spend as a writer you gave--paper, printing cost, research materials (dude, unless you are researching some seriously obscure stuff that 100% NEEDS to be right, you can literally get all of your research for free on the internet. Meanwhile, artists often need photo books, models, etc), a computer, internet access--the artist needs those too. PLUS the cost of materials, because at the end of the day the crappy thing you drew on copy paper and colored with crayola markers isn't going to sell unless you can pull some kind of Post Modern Art BS-ing shenanigans. OR, if you edit it on the computer. With a tablet, usually, and a program that is way more expensive than any word processing program. And again, you can be smarmy about "well, none of the artist I know need____ is as silly as saying none of the writers I know need any word processing program except the free stuff" except that that is bull, because even the pro-writers use basic word-processing programs, or free (or extremely cheap) writing tools available online. Because the quality of how your words look doesn't matter the way that the quality of how your art looks matters.

Honestly, I don't buy the argument anyway. I think it boils down to "the risk/reward for going after fanart versus going after fanfic is not equal to the original creators" and "fanfic has caused creators legal trouble in the past, and now everyone's gunshy" than "art is more expense!" (Art is FREAKING expensive, though.)

I just think it's stupid as balls to play the "well, if I replace your words with the words of the opposite situation it proves you wrong, because clearly these two things are completely the same." in a situation where...no, they are not the same.

I use Dramatica to plot out my stories. (http://dramatica.com/purchase) As well as Scrinever (http://literatureandlatte.com/scrivener.php) to orgainize all my notes and scenes and actually write the story. There are people that do this by hand instead of using the program. Which when you add up all the notecards and bulletin boards and tacks, probably cost more than just buying the program.

This one is another popular one. http://www.blackobelisksoftware.com/screenshots.html

I don't even use word, because I hate the program.

Put really this would be comparing using Gimp vs Photoshop, or ever other programs artists use.

As she said above, the tools you use such as pencils would be more comparable to the printing costs of the book/zines. That's going to be the reoccurring costs for the authors instead of the setting up costs.

For those prices: lulu.com

But really, most of us have nothing to do with word.

And what about the laptops needed to write fanfic?

When I did fanart, I didn't have my own computer. I scanned it using the computers at my school. I wrote the whole of my Master's dissertation on school computers. It can be done.

When it came to fanfic, I finally had to buy my own laptop. The amount of time it takes to write fic means there's no other way.

I hate this assumption that everyone already has a computer, that nobody buys a laptop specifically to write fanfic.

Not to mention that laptops wear out quickly. I've gone through three already, and the majority of the use they get is writing fanfic. That's way more cost than all the art materials I ever used.

I use free word processing though. Microsoft Word? I can't afford that! I use freebie software. Wish I had Word.

Not to mention that laptops wear out quickly.

yeah no that sounds like a problem on your end, not the laptops. my sister and i both got our laptops at the same time six years ago and both of ours are still in perfect working condition despite constant use. she's a digital artist, i make amvs, so we're both putting some serious strain on them.

Cheap laptops usually don't last as long.

they do if you take care of them. i paid $400 for that laptop, and like i said, it still runs like a charm.

SA

I've been through 3 laptops in 12 years. Given that they were cheap laptops and the technology was not so good 12 years ago, I'm doing about the same as you with 1 laptop in 6 years.

There comes a point where it's not worth the repair costs if there are multiple issues. That's all.

I'm so happy for you that you feel the need to judge my laptop use, with insufficient information, and even though I kept one laptop going 8 years which is more than you have done. How nice for you.

Were you selling that art? Was it professional (or fan-professional) quality?

Paper (bristol/watercolor)
Pens (expensive) and/or
Brush (more expensive)
Ink
Editing Program and/or
-markers
-paint
-colored pencils
PLUS computer

Hell, why did you need a laptop for your fic? If you wrote a dissertation on school computers, why did you need a laptop for the hobby? What's wrong with a paper and pen, right? Or the school computer again.

Eh, the materials argument is a stupid one anyway.

Because my dissertation took roughly 200 hours to type (with another 400 hours or so on research that didn't need a computer). I could book that time easily over a period of months.

I've spent tens of thousands of hours so far writing fanfic. That amount of time is impossible to book on a school computer, and rightly so.

Yes, I could write fic with paper and pen, and I do. But I'd have to re-type the fics to get them online anyway. So it's rather pointless.

SA

I didn't sell my fanart. It was for fun.

I sold my original art often. It was a necessary income stream during college. I mostly used acrylics on canvas, but I also made jewellery, pottery, clay sculpture portraits - anything that sold.

I didn't use a computer to make any of my art. I tried it a few times and went back to traditional media. So your 'PLUS computer' tag at the end of your art materials list is entirely unnecessary.

Oh, I'm sorry, PLUS computer apparently renders the cost of the materials, canvas, paints, clay, jewelry, yarn, etc of a craft or original work moot, I guess.

You still need a computer to participate in the art world ninety percent of the time. You build a customer base, you make an etsy shop, you post pictures of your work, you apply for space at shows, etc etc etc.

I don't know why you're being such a martyr about having to buy you laptop for fanfic. It kind of makes me raise an eyebrow because that's an awful lot of money to drop just for a hobby if it's such a big deal to you. Especially because, hell, you don't need a computer to write. You can write in a notebook. You only need one if you want to...oh, yeah, participate in the online world.

Dude, she's just saying that for her writing fanfic was a more expensive hobby than creating art, because she could access computers for free to cover all her art needs, but the free availability of computers couldn't cover her writing needs.

You can't argue with someone else that no really they totally spent more money on one thing than the other! It's they're goddamn money, they spent it, they know better than you how it was allotted.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2651 ]

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