[ SECRET POST #2677 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2677 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.
[The Scribbler]


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02.
[bioshock infinite: burial at sea]


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03.


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04.
[True Detective]


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05.


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06.


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07.


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08.
[fire emblem/super smash bros]


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09.


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10.
[World of Warcraft]


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11.


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12. [SPOILERS for Hannibal]



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13. [SPOILERS for Bioshock: Infinite]



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14. [SPOILERS for Game of Thrones]



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15. [WARNING for rape/abuse I'm assuming? Ramsay/Theon stuff]
http://i.imgur.com/Xo0GSkI.png



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16. [WARNING for mental illness/hospitals]



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17. [WARNING for depression]



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18. [WARNING for eating disorders]



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19. [WARNING for rape]

[Game of Thrones]








Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #382.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[intrigueing]

This has got to be the most pathetically transparent wankbait I've ever seen in my life.

But to take you seriously for a moment (why? I don't know, I' stupid I guess), I'm sorry, but actively rounding up and murdering over SIX MILLION PEOPLE in the span of a few years is a feat that hasn't been topped. Even people who technically caused the death of more, like Stalin, didn't do it in such a direct, compressed, machinated fashion. Nothing quite like Nazi Germany has ever occurred. If you think some things in the time since then are worse than Nazi Germany, fine, go ahead and think it, and make your case for it, but your evidence of your case against the US/Israel/whatever just won't be as compelling, persuasive, damning, dramatic, explicit, or powerful as the case against Nazi Germany, and therefore you won't see as many people jumping onto your bandwagon for anything except a bit of variety.

There's also the aesthetic aspect, which when it comes to fiction, is hard to brush off.

[(Anonymous)]

Are you seriously asking for Genocide Olympics here?

[intrigueing]

More like mocking the OP's butthurt about how Nazis win the genocide olympics.

[dethtoll]

Yeah, why do you think it's popular to make otherwise non-German bad guys -- for example, the Helghast in Killzone, or the El Oscuro cult in Rise of the Triad -- look vaguely Nazi-ish?

(though to be fair to RoTT it was originally planned to be a Wolfenstein 3D sequel...)

[intrigueing]

Yup. I had Star Wars in mind, and they aren't even from Earth ;)

[diet_poison]

To be historically correct, they also murdered about five million additional people who weren't Jews.

[intrigueing]

Yeah that thanks. I couldn't remember the right number.

[(Anonymous)]

This! Protestants, non-Catholic Christians, Roma, "foreigners" living and working in Germany, they were all sent to the death camps as well.

Not to mention the fact that Hitler STARTED the Eugenics Movement, that was very popular with the United States/Americans (before they decided in the early '40s that he was actually a bad guy for murdering able-bodied people), that murdered and/or sterilized millions of disabled people long before the Third Reich was even a blip on anyone's radar.

[dethtoll]

Technically Hitler didn't start it. The Americans did. Nazi Germany liked what we were doing and decided to industrialize it.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, eugenics did not start in Germany, and it wasn't new.

Wrong

[(Anonymous)]

No, he didn't start the eugenics movement. That goes back to the 19th century, and the US was merrily sterilising and killing the "unfit" and racially inferior all by themselves, no inspiration from Germany needed.

But you'll never get a Yank to admit that their country is anything less than morally pure and a haven of Freedooommmmm, so let's blame the Nazis in retrospect.

Re: Wrong

[(Anonymous)]

America is still sterilizing its undesirables. Google California Prisoner sterilization. Then google Israel sterilization black jews. Eugenics is alive and well, even in countries that really should know better.

[(Anonymous)]

Actually...it has been topped. At least twice.

[intrigueing]

Numerically, yes, which I acknowledged in my original comment. Conceptually/collective-psychologically, no.

[sarillia]

I'm sorry, but actively rounding up and murdering over SIX MILLION PEOPLE in the span of a few years is a feat that hasn't been topped

The Holocaust was really not the only genocide with a death count in the millions.

[intrigueing]

I...didn't say it was? My comment goes on to say some genocides have topped it in terms of numbers, but that that's not the point -- it's that nothing like the Holocaust, in terms of all the stuff that characterized it, has ever happened, so it's no surprise the Holocaust is the one that sticks in people's collective memories.

[sarillia]

That seems to be exactly what the comment I quoted says. Anyway, I can think of some other examples of genocides that were pretty methodical.

This is probably just me being weird but I just can't relate to people who say that the way the deaths were done makes the Holocaust worse than other war crimes. A horrific death is a horrific death and even ones that were done in more typical circumstances tend to involve dehumanizing the victims in terrifying ways.

Another "probably just me" thing: it makes me uncomfortable when people start ranking atrocities. It feels disrespectful.

[(Anonymous)]

Another "probably just me" thing: it makes me uncomfortable when people start ranking atrocities. It feels disrespectful.

+1. It's not just you.

[intrigueing]

I sure as fuck don't think that "the way the deaths were done" makes the Holocaust worse than other war crimes for the people who were actually killed. It's just that the context matters when it comes to...I dunno, the public consciousness of the event, and therefore, whether that event gets used for symbolic and metaphorical purposes in fiction. Like, WWI was just plain different than other wars for certain countries, like Britain. It's never been paralleled. That doesn't mean the deaths of the people who died in other wars were less horrific, just that the context affects how people see the event as a whole in hindsight. Likewise, the Holocaust was something where the context really mattered in shaping its broader meaning. It was unheard of at the time and nothing has really replicated it, and even if it was replicated, it would be a replication, not the original event. So there's a reason other war crimes are compared to the Holocaust, not the other way around.

But I absolutely agree that just because it makes sense that people think that way, doesn't mean it should be made into a
"this is how people always ought to think" thing. Comparing atrocities is pretty cold and dehumanizing, not particularly useful, and it can be dangerous. For one thing, it leads to the "well, at least I'm not a Nazi!" and justification and all the Whataboutism shown by the OP.

[(Anonymous)]

It's not because the deaths were more horrific, I think, but because of the process that lead to those deaths, and the novelty of that process. It was massive in scale and it was organized and mechanized and modern in its implementation, and intentional and directed and planned, in ways that had not happened in history before. It was unprecedented and new, different in fundamental, qualitative ways from anything that had happened before, and even if other horrible things have happened since, the psychic shock of it still echoes more. Because whenever something happens, it can happen again. So that means that the Holocaust was the first thing which confirmed that things like the Holocaust could happen, that the potential for something like this existed within the human species, whereas everything after was only something like the Holocaust.

So the Holocaust was something new, and it presented a new category in human affairs - the concept that a modern state could come together and decide to use scientific technological means to exterminate 12 million people, to try not only to kill people it regarded as its enemies but to exterminate them from the face of the earth so that no trace whatsoever remained. So that's why people accord more importance to it, and I think that does in some way make it... not worse, maybe - I agree that ranking atrocities is kind of suspect - but in some sense more horrifying or shocking.

[applemagpie]

I'd never argue against the historical significance of the Holocaust, but it is sad how the other cases of mass systematic genocide and ethnic cleansing have been pretty much forgotten in the common historical narrative

[(Anonymous)]

Same. Especially when they do it almost certainly based on media representation. Not much drama in being starved to death on a collective farm or worked and frozen to death in a gulag.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed that it's not just the numbers that make for the horror here: it's the tidy, programmed, industrial efficiency of it as well.

[dethtoll]

An industrial efficiency that was so effective that it broke down under the weight of its own byproduct (that is, corpses.) They were making so many bodies they were running out of places to put them.

Now that's scary.

[(Anonymous)]

The industrial efficiency was because they were Germans, they are always like that. Hell, even their language is like that.