fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2684 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2684 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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07. [WARNING for abuse/child abuse]

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08. [WARNING for depression]

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09. [WARNING for eating disorders]

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10. [WARNING for rape]

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12. [WARNING for sexual abuse]

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13. [WARNING for suicide]

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Yeah, I mean, there's videos of cops doing things like shooting cuffed people in the back while they're lying facedown on the ground, in front of numerous witnesses, because fuck it, I guess. We're far enough down the rabbit hole by now that it hardly matter whether you cry wolf or cry over something serious, cops will keep doing whatever either way.

If you're referring to the shooting of Oscar Grant, the officer served a prison sentence for it. Most of these officers at least lose their jobs when caught--it's not a solution to the system that created them, but it's better than nothing.

That's true, he served one year for an unprovoked shooting in front of dozens of witnesses, and that's the best we could ever expect. But I guess it's wrong of me to blame cops for what a jury decided on. Like you said, the whole system is cracked, and punishing careless cops alone won't address it.

I'd say Mehserle actually got the appropriate punishment. He said he was gonna tase Grant, then pulled out his gun, apparently by mistake--that's straight-up involuntary manslaughter. If there's an issue, it's with the rules that allowed for an officer to tase a suspect who was already down on the ground.

That's what he said. Can't say I'm eager to assume the best of someone who wants to shoot or electrocute an already subdued suspect. And even accidentally killing someone is only as excusable as the level of sheer irresponsibility evident. His weapon didn't discharge by accident, he didn't bother to check which one he had pulled before he discharged it at someone. That's a little more serious than "oops I tripped and it went off".

It's certainly serious--involuntary manslaughter serious. (I don't think you could make a case for voluntary in this context, given that his statement before firing was that he was gonna tase Grant.) It would be hypocritical of me to condemn him for it, since it's entirely possible I would have made the same mistake in his position. It's basically the same sort of mistake I make all the time; I just don't work in an industry where mistakes can kill people. Maybe you're a person who would never make a mistake like that, or maybe you're a person who wouldn't tase a subdued suspect even when operating within a culture where such is normal. I'm not sure if there's a way to respond to you if we're approaching this from different concepts of what a normal person can do and fail to do. Still, making him into a villain seems like separating him from all the similar people who have not had opportunities to be villains, and I don't think that's a useful or productive division.

I don't want to make him a villain, I seriously doubt he's a cold-blooded killer who was looking for an opportunity. But the very reason I don't think I should be a cop is because I would make mistakes exactly like that; I doubt I'd ever be more capable in life-or-death situations than an average untrained Joe on the street, and cops need to be better than that. My problem with saying "oh, it could have happened to anyone, give the guy a break" is that cops shouldn't be anyone, our standards for police shouldn't be that low. You're right, I probably would be that dumb in a tense situation; hell, I'd probably do worse. I wonder at any screening process is that gives dumb people like me lethal authority.

Like I agreed above, it's more about the system than the individual cop. But maybe part of addressing that system is making it clear that these kinds of screw-ups aren't acceptable, and that there's consequences if you can't do better than to check your weapon. But maybe I'm wrong. I'm not anymore qualified to hold forth on how to fix the system than I am to be a cop.

Edited (added the last paragraph) 2014-05-10 04:55 (UTC)

I guess I don't get what you want the consequences to be beyond two years in jail. I mean, longer prison sentences have not proven an effective deterrent to criminals--it doesn't seem like they would be an effective deterrent to cops.

And yet criminals continue to get longer sentences regardless. It seems a little hypocritical to recognize that it's not effective only in the case of cops. It's frustrating that there is no fix to what he did - a guy is dead, that's that, and nothing done to this cop matters. But something has to be done aside from two years with time served and then he immediately tries to appeal his conviction so he can get right back on the job. If not a longer sentence, I don't know what.

I support shorter criminal sentences and an increased focus on rehabilitation. No hypocrisy there.

As for Mehserle, his conviction was upheld. I don't really believe in justice, so I don't have any investment in making him suffer--truth be told, the idea of trying to balance some kind of cosmic scale by hurting people for hurting other people makes me nervous and queasy. To me, it's enough that he'll never be a cop again. (That's not enough for Grant's family, of course, but what would be? At least they still had one more lawsuit going the last time I checked.)

Sorry, not hypocrisy on your part, hypocrisy on the system's part that such considerations only ever apply to certain people, not to all. Nonviolent drug offenders get decades, a cop kills in cold blood and gets months, if that. It's bullshit.

But on the rest, I agree. I try to believe that prison should be for keeping imminently dangerous people away from others until they aren't dangerous, not for punishment, and the fact is that Mehserle isn't likely to ever do this again so long as he isn't a cop. Probably the only thing that would actually help is an overhaul of the system that allows guys like him into power in the first place, that offers no solutions other than a shrug and "what can ya do" when said guys fuck up, like this is the best we can expect.

Thanks for the reasonable discussion.

[ SECRET POST #2684 ]

Re: "Fuck tha police"

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