[ SECRET POST #2686 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2686 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 059 secrets from Secret Submission Post #384.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[darkmanifest]

Horrible things happen in real life, and while some shows are more happy and feel-good, some will show you the full load of shit that the human experience can entail.

When did people start to believe that anyone getting sick of gratuitously horrible things being done to minority characters in an often poorly-handed way meant that those same people can't handle any bad things happening to anyone in stories ever? Like, just because I don't see the point of a lovingly graphic and drawn out rape/torture/murder scene, I must want unicorns and rainbows instead? Maybe I just like things in stories to have a narrative purpose beyond "look how horrible this is, no, really, look"?

[(Anonymous)]

Amen!

I'm sick of people telling me that because I don't want to watch GoT anymore, I must not really "get it".

Wow, just because I don't want to watch a gratutious rape scene that does nothing to further the plot, must mean I can't handle the edginess.

I watch other shows and films that have plenty of darkness in them. Hell, I watch Hannibal, and that's a show that had a horse unbirthing and Colombian neckties.

It's the way the darkness is handled, and the way it serves the plot, that I have issue with. I also take issue with the general idea that "dark & edgy" automatically equals "better & more mature".

[ibbity]

"I also take issue with the general idea that "dark & edgy" automatically equals "better & more mature"."

YES YES A THOUSAND TIMES YES. I loathe and despise this idea, and it seems to be every-fucking-where. It even infected Star Wars, which was the least dark'n'edgy big-name franchise out there. It infects EVERYTHING, especially literature from what I've seen (I read a lot. Like, a LOT a lot. It is SO DAMN HARD to find literary fiction that isn't dark and depressing and full of Bad Things happening to everyone.)

[(Anonymous)]

HNNNNNG. MY RAGE ABOUT LITFIC IS UNPARALLELED.

Like, okay, i get that the author wants dark & bad & scary things to happen. that's cool. i am totally down with that, in fact, i like spooky weird things.

but for god's sake, would it kill them to have a likeable main character? or just one good, genuinely nice character we can root for? or a happy ending, after much trial & struggle?

it reminds me of this time my mother & I went to see a play by Anton Chekhov (I think it was The Seagull). and i understand that it's a classic and everyone artistic loves it. but i hated it, because there was not a single likeable character in that play. by the end of it, i just wished they'd all hurry up and die already and quit whining.

[alexi_lupin]

I felt that way when I studied A Streetcar Named Desire. By 2/3 of the way through I was just like "They're all insufferable and I don't care what happens to them."

[darkmanifest]

Exactly, the most mature media I've ever seen finds a balance between dark and light, which is actually a reflection of the real world that isn't a relentless march into the blood-soaked void. I'm not even offended by torture porn anymore, just bored and aggravated. When do we get back to the plot? And if that is the plot, well, count me out.

...wait, what's a Columbian necktie? *googles* Oh. Well, I learned something today.

[(Anonymous)]

oh geez i'm sorry you googled that!

probably should have warned you. :/

and yeah, IA about torture porn. it's either boring to me, or unintentionally hilarious. i think gore is most effective when used in small amounts - in The Sixth Sense, for example, those few moments were really chilling.

[esteefee]

I was discussing this with a friend of mine the other day -- we were talking about the way violence on "Justified" has so much more of an impact, not because it's more gory or bloody or graphic, but the reverse, it's because of how it's shot and cut: it's just plain shocking. They either build up the tension with awareness of the situation, with the dialogue mounting between the characters in this folksy, story-telling kind of way where one of the characters knows what's going on and maybe the other is completely oblivious to the gun hidden behind the other's back until BLAM! violence. Except, they don't show blood or guts or anything, just the person going down. The violence is in the capping off of all the tension.

Or, alternately, the violence happens so suddenly, so out of the blue, the audience is taken unprepared, and that is the shock. But either way, not a lot of gore. No tender, loving pans of guts spilling to the ground or whatever.

Personally, I think Justified does a terrific job of pushing the envelope and showing why violence is so troubling to begin with -- it's in the impulses between human beings.

[(Anonymous)]

I've never seen Justified, but as a fan of the 'less is more' doctrine, I'm glad to hear there's a show that hasn't jumped on the gore bandwagon. Honestly, very little of the graphic violence or sex I've seen on TV or in movies did anything for the story at all. So good for Justified.

[kallanda_lee]

The thing is that in some of those shows (like GoT), but even True Detective or Hannibal - some really, really horrible things happen to white male characters, too. Hell, in GoT and Breaking Bad, I'd say MOST bad shit happens to (white) male characters.


Obviously no-one is obligating you to watch anything, you can hate a show and I'm not going to convince you otherwise.


I agree some scenes were more gratuitous than they should have been. But, I think it's completely unfair to state that most those shows specifically single out women for (sexual) violence against them. And, I also think, that in my of the cases, the sex and violence ARE actually part of the narrative, and the way characters develop.

Again, it's perfectly valid to hate it as a genre, but it's not bad storytelling.

[darkmanifest]

I don't like unnecessary crap aimed at white male characters, either, it's only more frustrating when it's women/nonwhites because there's usually a lot less of them in the primary roles than white dudes, and a lot more of those white dudes are gonna get away scott free than the minorities.

Like I said, I don't care that bad things happen, and it's totally fair that some folks consider certain scenes or events more necessary to a story that I do - I can argue my opinion, but ultimately it's just that, an opinion. What I was protesting is that the idea that if I don't like it, it must be because I can't deal with dark topics. My problem is usually with the way I feel such topics are handled, not that they happen at all. There's stories/scenes wherein I feel violence, particularly violence against women, is handled capably, and stories/scenes where I feel it isn't.

[elephantinegrace]

I think I'll copy this one, too.

[elephantinegrace]

I'm copying and pasting this for inevitable future internet arguments.