fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2686 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2686 ⌋

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This is why I will never, ever be able to view having kids as a 'right.'

I don't think any person's personal desire to have children outweighs the kid's right to be loved, wanted, healthy, and to have access to the things they need in order to grow and thrive.

I have personally opted not to have children (even though I would like them) because my health problems would mean essentially playing Russian Roulette with a potential biologicial child's health and life and there is no way that I can justify that under any circumstances. My desire to have biological kids does not trump their right to be healthy and not suffer from lifelong health problems. Yeah, it's disappointing to me, but I'll live. If I were to have a kid, the kid might NOT live.

(reply from suspended user)

Love is a necessity, but it also isn't some magical power that will provide all other physical necessities. Those are important too.

Because all of those things are necessities. You can love your child, but loving them isn't going to put food on the table or buy them clothes. Likewise, you can be rolling in money and be able to give your kid all the material things they could ever want, but that's meaningless if you don't love them.

Na

They shouldn't have them. If you shouldn't get a dog in those circumstances, why the hell should you be having a kid in those?

DA But I think the one point where you just won't agree is that one side favours the rights of the child and the other the rights of the parents. So when asked "What about the people who want kids but really shouldn't have them", the answer would be that they just have to suck it up because it's not about them, it's about the child.

Then I think they shouldn't have kids. Obviously I can't stop them, but I can think they're irresponsible and selfish.

My best friend grew up poor. Very, very poor, as in there were often times when all she got was one meal a day. Sure, her parents loved her, but that didn't make her any less hungry. Today she can't stand to eat peanut butter because that was often the only thing they had to eat - bread and peanut butter.

Likewise, my mother works at a school, and I've heard plenty of stories from her of kids from well-off families whose parents treated them as trophies to show off their accomplishments rather than as people. The kids were scheduled to death because they had to be the best at everything so that Mommy and Daddy could brag about how talented and wonderful their children were.

I think both of those situations are equally awful because the parents were thinking of themselves rather than their kids.

I am not ayrt, and I can't speak for the specific situation you're asking about, but I'll answer your first question: no, I don't think people who have kids they can't provide for should be punished. I wish you would quit pushing for that because that's already been made clear by multiple people. We're not looking for government control. We're just expression opinions on certain scenarios.

Ok, I guess if everything you have an opinion about has to come with an idea that it needs to be legislated. I think the reason this has blown up so much is that an opinion was stated with zero connections to legislation and a bunch of people assumed legislation had to be part of it. Because literally, you and fingals and some anons mentioned legislation before ANYONE agreeing with OP, and now you all seem mad that we don't really want to talk about that because that wasn't OP's opinion. (nor is it mine.)

I've given this a lot of thought, though. I slept on it and thought about it through today. I want to be really clear that I agree with your legislative stance, and I understand where you're coming from in being wary of opinions that can lead to bad legislation. I respect that. I was just really taken by surprise when suddenly people started getting really upset about something that wasn't originally part of the conversation, at least from the way I was reading it.

mentioning those situations =/= acting like that's the opinion of people here who haven't said it. Seriously stop throwing links at me now, I genuinely appreciated it the first time but now it's like you're trying to prove to me something I already agree with. It's pointless.

I also continue to contend it's a huge jump from "I wish people who are not currently financially stable would wait to have kids" to "I think certain demographics are unfit to have kids". Bringing it up is one thing, but it literally sounded like those first comments were accusing some people here of holding those opinions when they didn't bring them up at all. And you continue to act like people disagree with you on legislating reproductive rights.

I'm not sure what can be done, really. Life isn't fair, and it will never be 100% fair for everyone, and sometimes you don't get to have something you want even if you really, really want it. That's just the way life is. I mean, hell, there were a lot of things that I and my family never got to do because we couldn't afford them, and yes, it sucked when classmates of mine were going on optional class ski trips and things like that and I couldn't go. It sucked and I was sad, but I also understood that we couldn't afford it.

I can't speak for my friend but I can say that many times she has spoken about how much she hated her childhood. She loves her parents, but her relationship with them is very strained and I wouldn't say that she's close to them by any means. She definitely does have at least some anger towards them for the circumstances in which she grew up because they've had a lasting impact on her life.

I'm actually not, I only lurk around DW for this community so I haven't seen a reason to make an account just for that. I'm a little curious as to who you think I am, though!

Oh for goodness' sake. This person isn't advocating the restriction of reproductive rights. They're just wishing that other people's moral choices aligned with their own when it comes to placing the well-being of children over their own desire to have a child.

Sort of like how some people think it's a shitty thing to treat pets like shiny toys to be left at a shelter when you're bored with them, and they wish people would realize it's immoral and stop doing it, but they're not likely to advocate any sort of legal enforcement to stop it.

Thank you.

You have a choice, and you are making the choice that is best for you.

When we say that something is not a right, we are saying that it is not up to the individual. We are saying that society at large can control it. And the trouble with that is that, when it comes to reproduction, society tends to opt for controls that are based on power and prejudice. Enshrining reproduction as a right doesn't completely prevent that from happening, but it does provide a decent stop-gap.

It's all well and good to educate people and to encourage them to have children responsibly. But saying that reproduction is not a right leaves us open to far too many abuses.

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