Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2014-05-20 06:32 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2014-05-20 06:32 pm
[ SECRET POST #2695 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2695 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 035 secrets from Secret Submission Post #385.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
talk nerdy to me
Re: talk nerdy to me
In terms of real revolutions, it all depends on the cultural background for it. In SNK they're working on the base assumption that there must be a king, which is a bit weird for me because I don't feel like it's ideologically established enough to be that significant. Also this weird obsession with a 'bloodless' revolution. Like seriously, that does not work ever. And why is it okay to sacrifice the Scouts over and over, but not to kill a noble or two?
Different types of revolutions draw on different ideological backgrounds. For example, in China, the concept of revolution was built into the whole dynastic system. The people were a reflection of the will of the heavens, and if the people suffered it meant that a monarch was unrighteous, therefore the monarch must be replaced by a righteous one. As a result, the first monarch of every dynasty was considered a paragon of virtue, while the last monarch was evil scum.
In Europe you had a bunch of ideological revolutions, the French revolution and the Communist revolution to name two.
The thing is, in a sense, what they're doing in SNK isn't a revolution at all - they just want to replace the king. It's plain old regicide. But it's stupid because Historia is a terrible candidate, she's not loyal at all, not devoted, and not indoctrinated. They'd be BETTER OFF having a proper revolution imo, because they need to replace the entire system of government since obviously they're all riddled with conspiracy and nobody can be trusted.
But wait and see, Isayama's going to pull something about how this was all to ~protect humanity~ or something, idk //flips table
I'd be happy to hear what you think! It's kind of impossible to get discussions going on tumblr.
Re: talk nerdy to me
I'd love to add some points;
1. What you said about the lower classes brewing with resentment is incredibly true. When Wall Maria fell, who was it that suffered the most? The lower classes, who had to change their way of life (Sasha's village), deal with the massive influx of refugees (the Trio as kids), or get sent to their horrific deaths (Armin's grandfather). I very much doubt that the nobles suffered as much, and I bet people noticed this. For god's sake there were people trying to save their property over people trying to evacuate and I doubt that was the only instance of that. Every single lower-to-middle-class person in the walls should realise by now that if the next wall falls that they're next on the chopping block.
Now, why haven't they rebelled before? I'd say that it was because they believed that the government was keeping them safe from the titans. But not only has Wall Maria fell, but Wall Rose was nearly destroyed at Trost, titans mysteriously appeared within Wall Rose AND there was a titan rampaging within Wall Sina. The illusion of safety has been utterly destroyed, with both the garrison and the military police utterly unable to stop it from happening.
But who did stop these titans? The scouting legion. It's a stroke of genius that they're so easy to spot with their green capes because then ordinary civilians can see that it's them, not the police or garrison, who are taking these titans out. They don't NEED Armin's plan of framing the government; the damage has already been done. I bet even the nobles within Wall Sina are goddamn terrified and want answers because they were supposed to be in the safest area!
So basically if you oppress people but promise safety and then don't deliever you better believe the people are going to be angry. Creating a people's revolution should be no trouble at all.
(I also have this glorious idea of people using the colour green as their color for revolution to both back the scouting legion and to make it difficult to know who is a scout and who is a civilian.)
2. I agree that putting Historia on the throne is a very bad idea, but what I imagine will happen is that they plan to do is use her authority to expose the truth and then dissolve the monarchy, or at the very least create a constitutional monarchy through something like the Magna Carta. But even that involves major problems; the magna carta still put a lot of power into the hands of the nobles, who we all know are self-serving and corrupt. And democratic/freedom revolutions happened because of an age of enlightenment where people were more educated and more likely to raise questions about rights and liberty. The people of AoT are so oppressed that even mentions of the outside world are banned and even though they seem to have invented the printing press I doubt that most of the people are educated in the concepts of rights and democratic concepts.
Honestly, if the manga doesn't go this way I would LOVE for you to write your revolution story, especially if you use the concepts you brought up. I would read the shit out of it.
Also I am following you on tumblr now, wayhey!
Re: talk nerdy to me
And like you say, I just find it so unbelievable that the people aren't angry in canon. They should be positively spoiling for a good revolution, seriously. Especially because like you say, once Wall Maria came down, there's no more promise of safety - they're with their backs to the wall. Historically, people in that situation have done more with less resources, because when you know death is coming either way, many people will choose to at least TRY to fight.
What you say about educating the people is why I said that running a more communist-style revolution would probably work easier. You rally people with concepts that are easy to grasp, and give the power to those you want running the show. If the SL showed more transparency in terms of their actions, it would probably not be too difficult to rally people.
But even so, if the SL started their project long enough ago, they could work on disseminating concepts and information. They could have had this running for years, and something like ten years could be enough to get the populace more enthused about concepts of rights and freedom.
I do hope to write this fic at some point XD for added awesomeness - what if they started way earlier? Like, Erwin recruits Levi, only on the first mission things go to shit, he betrays them, and then escapes before his execution. What nobody knows is that he and Erwin struck a deal, and now Levi's running the show back in the Underground and coordinating with Erwin.
And then with Eren, when they find out he's a titan, they fake his death after Trost and send him to Levi to take care of.
And I saw you followed me :)))
Re: talk nerdy to me
(Anonymous) 2014-05-21 07:04 am (UTC)(link)Your ideas are awesome and I would love to read it when you do write :)
Re: talk nerdy to me
When Wall Maria first fell, all anyone knew was that there was some new, special titans with unique abilities. There would have been more emphasis on learning more about the titans, and Hanji did this with Sweeny and Bean.
Eren revealing himself as a titan shifter changed everything. Before the scouting legion saw only the titans as the enemy. Now they realised that this means that titan shifters could be living among them. But even then this could be explained as a group outside the walls infiltrating their society to bring them down.
After they found the titans in the walls and the following events, the scouting legion, like the readers, slowly discover that there IS an internal conspiracy and it runs deeper and deeper with every new discovery. It's one thing to know about suspicion and corruption; it's another to know that your entire society is based on lies.
I'm not sure if you've read the Fullmetal Alchemist manga, but it followed a similar pattern. People knew that the military government was corrupt, but it took about 50+ issues to discover just how deep it ran and what it wanted to do. And honestly, that's how it SHOULD be done. Massive century-spanning conspiracies should only be discovered by picking up breadcrumbs, not discovering it all at once near the beginning.
I like your idea of a communist-style revolution; the walls are very clearly class-based, considering that the rich are in the 'safest' wall. If you capitalise on the people's anger of that and support giving power to the most vunerable, then that could easily work. And getting civilians to march on Wall Sina would make it easy for the scouting legion to slip into the palace and get answers.
Oh man, I'm actually inspired to draw some cool propaganda and protest posters and graffiti now.
Re: talk nerdy to me
Especially growing up how he did, I think it's really plausible that Levi would at least have some idea of there being a conspiracy behind the scenes. Working together with Erwin, they could have discovered real signs of corruption earlier. I mean, just look at how all the best soldiers are taken to the MP, and then they sit around doing nothing. It's clear they don't actually WANT to be able to fight titans, and that alone is kind of suspicious.
I think there's enough groundwork that it could be plausible that they've got this revolution being planned for a while now.
and omg, propaganda posters and graffiti! That would be amazing. Maybe when I write that fic it could be like a mini collab-y thing? Fics with images in them always look so cool. And propaganda posters would be great. ...regardless of the existence of the fic XD
Re: talk nerdy to me
Having the best soldiers in Wall Sina also made sense, because any ruling class would put their welfare above everyone else even if that wasn't logical. Sad thing is, all the corruption and conspiracy could be easily explained away by human vices and pettiness.
And you're right that all of the above is grounds for a revolution, but that would be more about people's rights and the scouting legion is dedicated to fighting titans. The cast want to start their revolution to get answers on the titans.
However, you are correct that there should already be subversive elements already in play, whether it be minor nobles who want more of the pie or any members of the MP who actually want to serve their people (like Marco). The legion should be finding and teaming up with these people ASAP.
Yeah, I'm actually doing research on it now and have come up with some good ideas. I've always liked propaganda posters and it'll be a neat little art project. You're free to use the posters with your fic, but I can't promise that I can make some art especially for it when you write it; my health and home situation is a bit in flux right now.
Re: talk nerdy to me
I still think though, conceptually, there's enough stuff going on that Erwin might want to start having a revolution earlier, even if he doesn't yet know how deep and messed up the conspiracy is. They could have had some groundwork in place, only to realize that things are way worse than they'd imagined, what with titan shifters and Wall Maria and such.
Re: talk nerdy to me
Y'know, now that I think about it, maybe the scouting legion IS a rebellion of sorts - all the people in it yearn to escape outside the walls. Maybe they think that once they discover more about the world and kill all the titans they can leave their shitty society behind?