[ SECRET POST #2704 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2704 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 022 secrets from Secret Submission Post #386.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[kallanda_lee]

I absolutely understand that, but you can't really blame fanfic authors for expressing their own kinks, or political leanings or whatever in the fiction they write.

[(Anonymous)]

"This female character is submissive" is a fantasy. "All women are submissive" is just offensive and less of a fantasy/more of a point of view. It's okay to have a problem with authors writing that sort of thing. "It's just a fantasy" is not an excuse for writing that. And it is okay to be offended by someone's political leanings in their fiction and for that to ruin you're enjoyment of the books. Some points of view are objectively wrong and it is okay to call out the authors.

[kallanda_lee]

It's...a fine line. To me it really depends on whether I think an author genuinely believes that, or it is a fantasy. I mean, I've run into Goreans - an while man, that is really NOT my cup of tea, they're not all inherently bad people - but, they are into a fantasy where all women, save for very rare exceptions, are basically submissive.

So, while I don't necessarily want to read it, I'm not offended by its existence if it's in the context of an erotic fantasy story - it's different if the person would write non-fiction about how hey actually think women are inferior.

And in term of offense - you have every right to be offended. But, you can't expect an author to cater to you by leaving in the stuff you want, and censor out the stuff you don't.

It's sort of an either/or thing: if the author's political view, kinks, opinions offend you - don't read them.

If you still read it, because there's part of fic that cater to your kink, but then get offended by the parts you don't like - I feel that's an unrealistic expectation there.

[(Anonymous)]

I have a problem with any fantasy that tells other people how they should be, though. I"m a woman and am not in any way submissive. And I have a problem with someone else's fantasy saying that I am something that I am not.

But then, I grew up in an environment where that was the actual viewpoint and where the very idea that a woman could be dominant was not just wrong but inconceivable. So that particular issue is a button for me.

[beverlykatz]

To be fair, I think a lot of people, most people even, can keep their fantasies separate from their actual worldview. I know some guys who are really into submissive women, and they often have this sort of nebulous fantasy about "every woman everywhere is submissive", but it's just that: a fantasy. They don't actually believe that all women should be submissive, and they'd be horrified if women suddenly became legal second-class citizens. It's a porno headspace intended solely for sexual purposes.

I do agree, though, that the "all women are submissive" thing can be really uncomfortable to read. Like, man, I understand rule of porn and all, but there are people who think a lot like this IRL. I get a watered-down version of this in my actual life, I don't need it in stories.

[kallanda_lee]

"I have a problem with any fantasy that tells other people how they should be, though."

Even if it's within the universe of the story?

To me there's a huge difference between "In this story and universe I wrote all women are submissive" and "All women are submissive, no context given".

And sorry about your home environment, anon, that must have sucked - and I can see why you wouldn't touch those stories with a ten foot pole.

[(Anonymous)]

I guess if it were completely separated from real life. But most often what I see in fics or published erotica is an extension of a real life belief or assumption that women are submissive. I haven't seen very much stuff where it really was just a fantasy and completely separated from the author's assumptions.

[(Anonymous)]

this, exactly

in a lot of published erotica and romance, it doesn't seem to be a "fantasy", as much as a belief of "this is how women and men are" (along with a whole bunch of romance tropes)

which is just really weird to me and kind of disturbing

[diet_poison]

I think it's fair to be really creeped out by it either way though. I totally agree with anon above - I'm a woman and REALLY not a submissive person. (and I'm straight.) You have to think, that comes from somewhere. So while there's technically nothing wrong with Goreans writing what they write, I have a right to be creeped out by it and stay the fuck away and wish people didn't think like that so deeply. If that makes sense. I'm not going to go there and shit all over them, but...I'm not going to pretend to be comfortable with the concept if it comes up

You're right though in saying that it wouldn't be fair to tell people not to write their fantasies.

I get the impression though that here it's more, "this is my worldview that I'm projecting into my fiction", not "this is my fantasy", and I have to agree with OP that that's really not okay

[kallanda_lee]

If it's a case of genuine world view being expressed by fiction, I also agree that's really not OK.

And, Gorean stuff also disturbs me - I just think it has a right to exist, and I don't get to tell the authors to write their stuff differently.

OP (NAYRT)

[(Anonymous)]

I used to default to "it's just a story; they probably don't really think that." Then a big-time loli writer got arrested for child molestation, and now I'm a lot more wary. I don't leave negative comments or anything, but I backbutton a lot faster when the narrative starts giving justifications for rape and such. (Also, I'm starting to get a lot more appreciative of the writers who note at the top that it's just a story and they don't condone that stuff.)

Political ranting, on the other hand, is a straight-up backbutton unless your story was clearly about politics from the start.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree on the kink one, but not the political leanings thing. A good writer should be able to remove themselves and their opinions if it doesn't fit with the characters or the world they live in.

[kallanda_lee]

They should be able to remove themselves from it, yes - but what if they want to write about it?

[(Anonymous)]

da

Then they should go write non-fiction, or figure out a nuanced, illustrative way of writing it, rather than Author Tract-ing it in. Consideration for how much sense it makes for any characters in a fanfic context should also be taken.

[(Anonymous)]

seriously? writers write for themselves. telling them they should rant in no fic only seems... rude. writing is a way of exploring things, and if you don't want to read it, then click back.