[ SECRET POST #2704 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2704 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 022 secrets from Secret Submission Post #386.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

11. http://i.imgur.com/vL8ZJfj.png

[kallanda_lee]

I absolutely understand that, but you can't really blame fanfic authors for expressing their own kinks, or political leanings or whatever in the fiction they write.

[(Anonymous)]

"This female character is submissive" is a fantasy. "All women are submissive" is just offensive and less of a fantasy/more of a point of view. It's okay to have a problem with authors writing that sort of thing. "It's just a fantasy" is not an excuse for writing that. And it is okay to be offended by someone's political leanings in their fiction and for that to ruin you're enjoyment of the books. Some points of view are objectively wrong and it is okay to call out the authors.

[kallanda_lee]

It's...a fine line. To me it really depends on whether I think an author genuinely believes that, or it is a fantasy. I mean, I've run into Goreans - an while man, that is really NOT my cup of tea, they're not all inherently bad people - but, they are into a fantasy where all women, save for very rare exceptions, are basically submissive.

So, while I don't necessarily want to read it, I'm not offended by its existence if it's in the context of an erotic fantasy story - it's different if the person would write non-fiction about how hey actually think women are inferior.

And in term of offense - you have every right to be offended. But, you can't expect an author to cater to you by leaving in the stuff you want, and censor out the stuff you don't.

It's sort of an either/or thing: if the author's political view, kinks, opinions offend you - don't read them.

If you still read it, because there's part of fic that cater to your kink, but then get offended by the parts you don't like - I feel that's an unrealistic expectation there.

[(Anonymous)]

I have a problem with any fantasy that tells other people how they should be, though. I"m a woman and am not in any way submissive. And I have a problem with someone else's fantasy saying that I am something that I am not.

But then, I grew up in an environment where that was the actual viewpoint and where the very idea that a woman could be dominant was not just wrong but inconceivable. So that particular issue is a button for me.

[beverlykatz]

To be fair, I think a lot of people, most people even, can keep their fantasies separate from their actual worldview. I know some guys who are really into submissive women, and they often have this sort of nebulous fantasy about "every woman everywhere is submissive", but it's just that: a fantasy. They don't actually believe that all women should be submissive, and they'd be horrified if women suddenly became legal second-class citizens. It's a porno headspace intended solely for sexual purposes.

I do agree, though, that the "all women are submissive" thing can be really uncomfortable to read. Like, man, I understand rule of porn and all, but there are people who think a lot like this IRL. I get a watered-down version of this in my actual life, I don't need it in stories.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree on the kink one, but not the political leanings thing. A good writer should be able to remove themselves and their opinions if it doesn't fit with the characters or the world they live in.

[kallanda_lee]

They should be able to remove themselves from it, yes - but what if they want to write about it?

[(Anonymous)]

da

Then they should go write non-fiction, or figure out a nuanced, illustrative way of writing it, rather than Author Tract-ing it in. Consideration for how much sense it makes for any characters in a fanfic context should also be taken.

[forgottenjester]

It's irritating but the only thing you can do is backbutton.

[(Anonymous)]

I think you need to find better fap material.

I've been needing an excuse for this...

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Houseplants of Gor. (Warning, non-consensual plant watering.)

Re: I've been needing an excuse for this...

[kallanda_lee]

I see I'm not the only one who instantly thought of Goreans. That fic is gold, tbh.

Re: I've been needing an excuse for this...

[(Anonymous)]

what, that is perfect. thank you for making this a part of my life.

[(Anonymous)]

As I've actually run across this in published works, meaning someone got paid and still put that in, I feel your pain. (IE. K. Armstrong's Bitten, it was all right until for some odd reason it had to be pointed out that the main female character was a liberal journalist from Canada but then commented on a completely US issue, the Bush election with the Florida flap and it pulled me so OUT of the story I was all, let's get back to werewolves PLEASE!)

[philstar22]

Oh, it is absolutely a published book issue. I read an essay by Sherilon Kenyon once where she complained that Buffy was too emasculating and that the seasons where Buffy was more feminine were better because they allowed Spike and Angel to be real men. I knew in that moment I was never going to read any of her books.

Then there are people like Terry Goodkind or Philip Pullman whose works are so completely about their philosophical view that they lose the story altogether and the books become preachy messes.

[(Anonymous)]

I despise that thought process (Buffy emasculating S&A).

[philstar22]

Me too. She pretty much missed the whole point of Buffy and is clearly one of those authors who forced their worldview into even places where it doesn't fit.

[(Anonymous)]

aarghhh Phillip Pullman makes me so mad

because i loved the Golden Compass and the worldbuilding and it was SO INTERESTING and it could have been so awesome!

and then the soapboxing started

what an awesome world & story, wasted.

[philstar22]

Exactly. I hate when authors do that even when I agree with their perspective. Politics shouldn't get in the way of the story when you are writing fiction. If it works with the story, great (hey, Lord of the Rings is made of conservative, which is not in any way me, but the story works and that makes me love it in spite of the politics).

[diet_poison]

I read an essay by Sherilon Kenyon once where she complained that Buffy was too emasculating and that the seasons where Buffy was more feminine were better because they allowed Spike and Angel to be real men. I knew in that moment I was never going to read any of her books.

Man, I've never seen a single episode of Buffy but that mindset is making me DNW so hard

I mean, yuck

[philstar22]

Yuck is right. And also completely missing the point of Buffy. Buffy is all about empowerment (it has its problems, and I wouldn't say it is perfectly feminist, but female power is the point of the show).

[(Anonymous)]

If you mean Sherrilyn Kenyon, some of her books are very good, and some of them are very bad. They're all pretty heteronormative for the most part, but some of them were very original in plot and scope. I can't emphasize "some" enough, though.

[philstar22]

Anyone with the perspective that a character like Buffy is emasculating (and that there is such a thing as emasculating at all) is not someone whose books I want to waste time reading even if they are good.

[(Anonymous)]

Link to the last story, please?