fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2707 ]

[ SECRET POST #2707 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2707 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 066 secrets from Secret Submission Post #387.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 (also a repeat x 3) - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I stopped watching after the first season, but I'm curious - how exactly are people saying the ship promotes rape culture?

There are two main reasons I've seen listed in the big anti-Hook/Emma ships.

1. Emma took a lot longer to show her feelings than Hook did. Hook's been interested for quite some time but Emma only just let him in and they started a relationship. The big claim I've been seeing is that a woman not showing her desire is part of rape culture, and that since she hasn't been interested in Hook from day 1 that that involves coercion. (I think that not letting people in in any form is a core part, if not THE core part of Emma's personality, and something she dealt with more notably with Henry and her parents).

2. There was a brief point in the show where Emma didn't remember anything (as well as Henry) and just had memories of raising Henry herself. Hook came to find her. He kissed her to try to induce True Love's Kiss (which didn't work because TLK doesn't work with memory issues like that). People have seen this as assault. (Emma doesn't just accept the kiss, and this is the only time he's done anything remotely untoward with her).

3. There was a brief point where, as a stupid plot point, the evil villain of the second half of season 3 cursed Hook's lips, that if he kissed Emma Emma's newfound magic (yes Emma has magic) would be gone. Emma's trying to flirt with Hook like they do, so there's one point where he's watching the whole Charming family from outside Granny's with a spyglass. Admittedly this is kind of creepy, but it's a fairly isolated incident.

Those are the big things. There are other lines that they kind of twist to make Hook look like a much worse guy than he is, which is especially weird considering Regina's canonically a rapist and these fans generally don't oppose that.

Those...all seem kind of overblown and ridiculous. 1 & 2 particularly. I thought it was going to be something about Hook kidnapping her or...idk I just expected more controversial plot points (like the weird Regina rape stuff). OUaT you disappoint me!

Thank you for answering my curiosity though!

Yeah, it's pretty overblown, in my opinion. I'm fairly sensitive to rape and sexual assault in media, and I never really got that in this pairing. Generally, Emma initiates most of the physical contact with him (except the failed True Love's Kiss), is generally flirty with him, and pretty clearly reciprocates.

No problem! :)

this is the only time he's done anything remotely untoward with her

Except for those rape jokes he cavalierly chucked at her while he was working with Cora, you mean.

I haven't seen this blow up any where, but I'd be happy for some fucking backlash against this character. /still bitter about being attacked right left and center for being uncomfortable with him

Anything other than the "when I jab you with my sword" thing? Because I'm not entirely certain that was intended to mean what people think he meant.

Idk, like be wary about him, ESPECIALLY past!Hook, but I've seen a lot of people give him shit when not caring about Regina or Rumple's shit. Even though Regina canonically raped Graham for years and years.

He said something about her being on her back and, yes, the sword-jabbing thing, which is definitely a sexual innuendo towards a woman he is actively trying to hurt, so it's hard for me to see it as anything but that. At best, he is a Nice Guy for me, and I can't stand him. He was also really inappropriate with Belle on at least two occasions - he uses sexual innuendo as an intimidation tactic, and that IS rape culture, so welp.

I don't have a high opinion of Regina, because she is a confirmed rapist, abuser, and killer, and while Rumpelstiltskin is my favorite character, I have no illusions over his own goodness (but he isn't a rapist and has never made a rape joke, either). I don't like the 'but no one who hates Hook ever complains about anyone else!' argument because that's not true at all and it completely sidetracks from Hook's skeeviness by making the conversation about other people.

Both of those statements aren't good. Hook hasn't always been a good guy. However, he's definitely grown as a person. I don't think he comes across as a Nice Guy, though. He generally backed off from Emma when he said he would, and when he could have been like "I sold the Jolly Roger for you, you totally owe me sex" he didn't. He had so many opportunities to be worse, but he wasn't.

Idk, it's just been frustrating because there are a fair number of people who have been all up on Hook for these things, when at the same time they're defending Regina and Rumple. It's not everybody; there are people who complain about them all.

Rumple isn't a rapist, but I really lost all respect when he lied to Belle and then they got married, under relatively false pretenses. He has fucked up that relationship so much. He manipulated things so that she would go with him, he kept her essentially to himself when the curse broke, and he's consistently lied and deceived her. I'm also not entirely unconvinced that him killing Milah wasn't domestic violence. I don't like Milah very much, and I think her leaving Baelfire was reprehensible. However, Rumple killing her the way he did was iffy.

I have no illusions that Hook has always been a good guy. I barely liked him until this season. However, I see a lot of people sweep Regina and Rumple's really iffy relationships under the rug. I don't think Hook's above criticism, but I find the number of people who, for example, excuse Regina as a rapist astounding.

Speaking as someone who either doesn't ship Emma with anyone--as in, I was and would be more than happy with single Emma--or multiships her with a big long list of people: Emma/Hook is the only NOTP I've ever had in twenty years of fandom involvement, because Hook was introduced as a sexist bully and never shown to regret that behavior.

I think I get what the writers are trying to do with the ship: they've compared Emma and Hook to Leia and Han recently. But for me the build-up just wasn't there. Hook went from helping to save Henry in Bae and Milah's memory to assuage old guilt to infatuated with Emma, who he'd just been trying to kill, in one day. All his comments and behavior towards women in general, not just Emma, in season 2 made my skin crawl. The writing in season 3 points at that being the mask of a pirate persona for Killian Jones, puppy-dog eyed bad boy, but Colin Odonoghue sold Captain Hook, remorseless sociopath, way too well for me to see it as anything other than an act.

As for what about his actions promotes rape culture, mostly his assurance that he deserved Emma and was going to win her, his hinting that Emma should kiss him as a reward for saving Charming, his stalking her, and everything he'd done in season 2 and never apologized for, up to and including telling Rumpelstiltskin he and his men were going to use Milah as a sex toy, something Emma is still completely ignorant of. I can't believe Emma would stay with Hook if she found out about that, or Hook selling Bae to Pan. But then, I couldn't have imagined season 1 or 2 Emma wanting a man who called her "dried up, dead, and useless" before he locked her and her mother and allies in an impervious cell to die of slow starvation, either.

OUAT used to be ridiculous but enjoyable to me, but between the lack of consistent characterization and overabundance of Hook, I'm not going to watch season 4. I can't actually watch scenes Hook's in because I'm so strongly reminded of bullying creepy sleazebags I've known and loathed. I thought the Regina and Rumpelstiltskin apologists were bad, but at least the writers occasionally remind us they're villains because they're bad people. Hook has the writers woobifying him as much or more than his fandom does, and they don't need encouragement.

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[ SECRET POST #2707 ]

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