[ SECRET POST #2710 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2710 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 029 secrets from Secret Submission Post #387.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Male Power Fantasies

[(Anonymous)]

Are they a bad thing? I hear the term thrown around a lot to imply a film is shitty. But if something is a male power fantasy film, does it mean it is a bad film? For example I was discussing the fim verson of wanted today, and the gist of the argument was "No woman should like it because -blahblahmisogyny- how can you like a film that was made just to feed -blahbahbrainlessneckbeards- their shitty male power fantasies?"
And my answer was "Dunno, I just do" which didn't seem to be a winning argument.

So am I wrong? Are male power fantasies an objectively bad thing?

Re: Male Power Fantasies

[dancing_clown]

No. You're arguing with a stupid person.

Re: Male Power Fantasies

[quirkytizzy]

This.

Re: Male Power Fantasies

[(Anonymous)]

Thing is, I'm really not. She's a very cleaver woman. I think she's wrong in this matter, but this woman is really very smart most the time, and not given to over reactions. as far as feminism goes, I tend to follow her lead, but I think in this case... I dunno.

Re: Male Power Fantasies

[scrubber]

Well for a cleaver woman she seems quite dull

oh shit

oh man

oh shit

Re: Male Power Fantasies

[diet_poison]

or maybe just...nobody's perfect and we all have things we disagree about...

though in this case I don't agree with this particular person (the woman in question)

Re: Male Power Fantasies

[(Anonymous)]

Ah yes, the one thoughtless opinion (about movies especially!) someone has illustrates their entire character.

Re: Male Power Fantasies

[(Anonymous)]

I'd say objectively no.

I personally find them boring as hell, though. (I am def. not the intended audience.)

Re: Male Power Fantasies

[(Anonymous)]

Just out of curiosity, what did you think of wanted? Did you ever watch it?
Would it have grabbed you more if the genders were reversed and it was a woman power fantasy?

Re: Male Power Fantasies

[(Anonymous)]

Wanted bored me to goddamn tears. I was half asleep by the end of it.

I don't know if I'd have liked it more if Wesley was a woman. I can't think of any movies/shows/books quite like that off of the top of my head to compare.

Re: Male Power Fantasies

[sarillia]

Nope. I think the fact that male power fantasies are generally more acceptable than female power fantasies is a problem but people have all kinds of power fantasies and I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with them.

I don't always want to watch them though.

Re: Male Power Fantasies

[diet_poison]

This...I think sometimes male power fantasies are taken for granted? but they're not inherently sexist as long as they're just fantasies or the setting for a controlled situation

How do I put this?

[chardmonster]

The issue is that we get just about always Male Power fantasies and not the alternative.

I am totally up for a good Male Power Fantasy, I just want other Power Fantasies to pick from when going to a movie.

It's the same with "Male Gaze" in media. The problem isn't shooting things from a male perspective. It's the fact that it's virtually always a male perspective.

Re: How do I put this?

[darkmanifest]

Yeah, that sums it up pretty well.

Re: How do I put this?

[forgottenjester]

Pretty much this.

Re: How do I put this?

[(Anonymous)]

So is a full ass shot of Hugh Jackman as Wolverine a male power fantasy or..?

Re: Male Power Fantasies

[ariakas]

They're not an objective measure of artistic quality, if that's what you mean by "shitty", no.

Can they have shitty affects on society, perceptions of gender, and male entitlement, though? Yes.

Personally I think they're not that bad if they're empowerment simply for empowerment's sake, as opposed to specifically male empowerment at the expense of disempowering women. "Dude does some cool shit, that's awesome" is fine, "dude does cool shit because penis powers also receives attractive sexual object with no agency of her own as a reward for his success" is not fine.

Re: Male Power Fantasies

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think that by themselves they're necessarily a bad thing, no. I think the reason why people are down on them is because they're frequently offered forth as "evidence" that men and women are equally objectified. That, of course, is nonsense. But it's such awful nonsense that I'm not surprised it's tainted the whole concept of the male power fantasy.

Re: Male Power Fantasies

[dethtoll]

The existence of them isn't the problem.

The prevalence of them is the problem.

Re: Male Power Fantasies

[(Anonymous)]

a) "No woman should like X" is a line of reasoning that's really stupid. We can like things while acknowledging that they're problematic or have problematic elements. (For example, 300 has all sorts of issues, but damn if I don't love watching it. Both for the over-the-top action and the buff shirtless men.)

b) Male power fantasies aren't, of themselves, bad things. The problems come when that's all there is, and when those power fantasies take the power aspect from weakening others, rather than strengthening the men, if that makes sense. It would be just as bad to have a media landscape consisting entirely of female power fantasies, or if every female power fantasy involved removing agency from men, rather than granting agency to women.

Re: Male Power Fantasies

[cushlamochree]

You could say Indiana Jones is a male power fantasy and if you're going to tell me that Indiana Jones is objectively bad you're going to have a difficult time with that.

I don't think Wanted was very good, but I don't think that's because it was a male power fantasy. Well... maybe the comic book version, but that was more to do with how incredibly adolescent it was.

Re: Male Power Fantasies

[darkmanifest]

I love power fantasies of every stripe, there's nothing inherently wrong with them. I hate that dudes have a near-monopoly over them. I also hate it when women are objectified prizes in those fantasies, and same with the reverse, people shouldn't be rewards for competence or heroism, get money, get justice, get notoriety for being the Baddest Badass to Badass, don't get access to genitals bestowed upon you like a knighting.

Re: Male Power Fantasies

[diet_poison]

idk, it's fantasy, right?

Re: Male Power Fantasies

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Film criticism isn't "this is bad, and you're a bad person for watching it." It's "hey, look at this."

Re: Male Power Fantasies

[nyxelestia]

Inherently? No.

But most of the time, male power fantasies tend to be coupled with female objectification and misogyny, so I can see where the mix-up would happen.

That said, there can absolutely be male fantasies that also have great female representation (i.e. White House Down holds a dear spot in my heart, and I've heard some pretty good arguments about the Fast and Furious movies, though I've only seen one myself).