[ SECRET POST #2711 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2711 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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10. http://i.imgur.com/xX3TpPn.png
[linked for gore]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 017 secrets from Secret Submission Post #387.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Haven't seen it, can someone explain what's going on in this scene? Thanks!

[(Anonymous)]

Cap's in the elevator and people (who are supposedly on his side) keep casually getting into the elevator, and when he's outnumbered like 10:1 he says something like "IF you don't want to get your ass beat you can get off now", and even though its an ambush and they have all kinds of Cap-subduing equipment he TAKES THEM DOWN with great prejudice and it is glorious.

[(Anonymous)]

"Before we begin...does anyone want to get out?"

It's in the trailer. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82RKQPgeYRs

[(Anonymous)]

It is amazing. :) Love that scene. Also him taking down the jet with his shield. I was reading a older fic the other day that had Steve all rigid and uptight and "but but but rules/orders" and I was like HAhahaha no.

[(Anonymous)]

He's very "rules are good until they are used to hurt people."

Then he'll turn you into a smear on the floor. :)

[(Anonymous)]

Nah, he's more "rules are nice and all but I do whatever the fuck I want".

[got_swagger]

The entirety of CA:TFA is basically someone saying "Steve, don't do the thing." And then Steve going, "I'm going to do the thing."

It's so weird to see Steve all about orders in TA.

[(Anonymous)]

His characterization in Avengers was mostly terrible. Joss clearly has no idea what to do with a character like Steve.

[(Anonymous)]

I....actually don't think it was? The other day when it was being discussed here and people said he was OOC, at first I thought "yes". And then I thought about it some more and was "but no." Okay I'm sorry bear with me, I've obviously been thinking about this too much. But when Avengers starts, we find him beating the crap out of a series of punching bags. And yes he gets on board with the mission, but not without giving Fury plenty of sass about it. I think Steve is just pissed off at the world when the movie starts, and he probably feels completely out of control. But then he gets back in the field and he's back on more familiar ground, but then Tony shows up, and suddenly he's completely out of control of the situation again. And to top it off Tony just seems to be deliberately trying to push his buttons. And in response Steve goes into complete uptight asshole mode. But it doesn't stop him from listening to what Tony and Bruce are saying and going and breaking into the storage area and then confronting Fury about the weapons. And then by the time he and Natasha and Clint steal the jet and take off without even pretending to ask permission, he's back to form.

I don't know. I've obviously been overthinking this. Sorry. :(

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I'm in complete agreement with you. I'm the anon below; quoting a bit more from my previous comment, "Imo, the fact that Steve needed some persuasion before taking Tony's concerns seriously says more about his then-relationship with Tony than about Steve himself. At that point, Steve saw Tony as little more than a flashy, egocentric, unreliable dilettante; of course Steve was going to try to keep Tony focused on the task at hand, and to be suspicious of Tony's motives for spying on SHIELD."

And I can't believe I forgot about Steve's stealing the jet with Natasha and Clint! A+ evidence, anon.

[(Anonymous)]

Haha yes. "Son, just don't."

[(Anonymous)]

And SA as above, also AYRT...

I agree with you. Steve is just already bone-deep angry, and Stark is pushing every single button he has. Tony's pushing (which is what he does) and Steve is pushing back. If Tony's going to flout the rules, well then, damn, he's going to be the rules' greatest champion, just to oppose Tony (even if he might privately think there's something to what Tony's saying).

Steve is all about orders until he isn't.

[nyxelestia]

He'll respect that someone else might have more knowledge, clearance, other plans, etc. and go along with them because he understands the idea of being a part of a bigger picture. But he is not an "ends justify the means" kind of guy, so if the 'means' (aka orders) are wrong, then hell yes he'll go against them.

He'll commit to whatever course of action he chooses, whether it's following orders or going against them. Once he sees that something is wrong, he'll go all out to make things right again - but he is also understandably cautious about simply haring off and declaring someone or something "wrong" and working against them. Up to a certain extent and in their own ways, both Fury and Pierce/HYDRA are extremes of that mentality - they are what happens when "fuck the rules, I'm doing what (I think) is right!" is taken too far. So Steve does try to play by the rules first, and is cautious about going against them. But that doesn't mean he sees them as the be-all, end-all, or that he won't acknowledge that sometimes orders are just wrong for either tactical reasons or moral ones.

In all three movies he's been in, when he sees something wrong, he'll first try and take care of it the legal and "right" way. It's only when that doesn't work or things just get too far out of hand that he'll work outside or even against the system if necessary.

Re: Steve is all about orders until he isn't.

[tenlittlebullets]

*nods* And I like the way that caution was framed in CA:TWS--as trust. Giving people the benefit of the doubt by default, but also even before the big conspiracy plot kicks in, he's mouthing off to Fury about the importance of institutional trust and trustworthiness. He's already suspicious of SHIELD because he's picked up on the lack of good faith between the people giving the orders and the people acting on them; he understands the power of institutions and the importance of being part of a bigger picture, which is why he refuses to stick with the program when he can feel an organization like SHIELD starting to go off the rails.

DA

[(Anonymous)]

Which leads to his wonderful rebellion in front of Pierce.

"I'm sorry. [Don't trust anyone] were his last words and that includes you"

At least, that's how I read it. It seems others didn't, which makes me wonder if I'm doing it wrong. It felt very "fuck you" to me.

[(Anonymous)]

What I find weird is all of the people who keep thinking that he's all about the orders in TA. To quote from my comment the last time this came up, "He broke into a locked room, removed an experimental weapon without permission, and stood up to Fury (who's more or less his superior officer) in semi-public regarding the project." How exactly is that all about the orders?!

[(Anonymous)]

You remember that scene at the end of the first Captain America movie where he wakes up in that fake recovery room, and when he starts getting troublesome they send in two guys to restrain him? When I saw that scene, I said "Man, TWO GUYS? I bet someone got fired for that... learn to read a file."

Clearly, someone DID get fired, because this time, when SHIELD wants to restrain Captain America, they deploy ten specialists, with custom weaponry, in an enclosed space, using the element of surprise, backed up by multiple SWAT units, inside several nested layers of physical security, with a short-range antipersonnel fighter ready to scramble on zero notice just in case.

It doesn't help much, but at least they made an effort this time.

[(Anonymous)]

I hope someone got fired for that whole set-up, what with making a mistake as dumb as putting a game from 1941 on the radio when everyone and their mother knows Steve went down in 1945.

[(Anonymous)]

I can't help but imagine Coulson getting wind of that clusterfuck and facepalming for three hours.

Possibly with some I TOLD YOU SOs in there.