fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2715 ]

[ SECRET POST #2715 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2715 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

[Tales of Innocence]

__________________________________________________

03.

[Transamerica]

__________________________________________________

04.

[Final Fantasy VIII]

__________________________________________________

05.

[Interview with the Vampire]

__________________________________________________

06.

[Andrew Lloyd Webber]

__________________________________________________

07.

[Critical Miss]

__________________________________________________

08.

[Great British Menu/Emily Watkins]

__________________________________________________

09.

[Mike Malinin, Goo Goo Dolls]

__________________________________________________

10.

[Pacific Rim]

__________________________________________________

11.

[Star Trek TNG]

__________________________________________________

12.

[Homestuck]

__________________________________________________

13.

[The Man From Nowhere]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 058 secrets from Secret Submission Post #388.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

In general, when writing or reading fic, I like canon underpinnings in a story, however, sometimes I am completely okay with a more realistic approach to things like medicine or the law. What do you think?

Should a purportedly normal human who has been hit in the head hard enough to get knocked unconscious actually have some issues other than getting up and rubbing their head?

Should a suspect be let go because of police/agent misconduct during interrogations?

i'm all for realism, especially in settings that need some suspension of disbelief to work. fantasy (in the first sense of the word) seems more believable if the little things sound right. i'll be more inclined to believe your world has dragons if the dragons' fire causes third-degree burns.

I agree with your sentiment here. I like a bit of Magic Realism in my fantasy - set rules for how magic works, show that it has consequences. Also keep the laws of physics as a baseline so we know how far out of "the ordinary" magic can go.

And I expect dragon's fire to cause 3rd or even 4th degree burns. Dragons are supposed to be dangerous, and one of the main things that makes them so is their fire. You need to make serious exceptions for why someone would survive dragonfire.

/coughs Rper* here, but...yeah. Sometimes. Depends on what it is.

As for the first question, yes, they probably should. If nothing else it's going to take them a minute or so get oriented as to what's going on, and why they're on the ground. You also need to remember it generally takes a lot of force to knock someone out, and that means there's going to be impact damage.

http://www.andrewjackwriting.com/2012/04/04/five-things-writers-need-to-know-about-being-knocked-out/ <- article aimed at writers discussing getting knocked out

http://www.mmamania.com/2011/4/4/2090621/the-knockout-how-it-feels-to-go-out <- Someone [an mma fighter I'm guessing, but it's not actually said] describing their experiences with getting knocked/different types of getting knocked out

The second question depends entirely on the legal stuff for where that's based. I think it usually depends on the exact circumstances, and exactly *what* the misconduct was as to what happens.

*Original character rpers tend to be fairly anal about realism

In direct answer to your questions:

It's actually quite hard to knock someone unconscious, from *behind*. Break their nose and the pain can cause them to pass out. But from behind is a different story. Getting whacked hard enough to be knocked out usually = TBI (traumatic brain injury) involving possible fractures, possible *penetrative* fractures; scalp lacerations, internal/external bleeding... So yeah, they should probably go to a hospital and get checked out. They'll definitely have concussion, possibly a rated TBI (mild/moderate/severe).

And it's not as simple as just letting the suspect go. In most cases (US, Canadian, British, most European countries, Aus&NZ, also South Africa and Israel), it first has to be determined if the officer did indeed breach procedural/conduct regs. This involves an internal investigation. The suspect may be held in remand, pending the outcome of that investigation. His/her lawyer would probably seek to have the suspect released, and so needs an external ruling on the matter, so now a judge is involved. Depending on the nature of the suspected crime, and depending on the evidence the police present to the judge, remand may be waived, or upheld. Short version: a suspect in that situation never just walks away.

And onto geekiness (other geekiness, I mean).

REALISM IS AWESOME.

I mean, I like fantasy. Fantasy is my escape, and when I want that escape, I send the bitchy REALISM IS AWESOME part of my brain into the corner for the duration.

But otherwise... Gimme facts, make me understand just enough to know that there.is.so.much.MOAR and I'll go Google it. I am a total geek over realistically written fiction.

And then my own writing process involves oodles of lovely research time. I'll look something up for fun and one little fact will jump out and suggest a whole story (or else just a couple of characters having an interesting discussion about it). I'd say that a full third of my writing time is taken up in research.

Which... kinda makes writing fantasy HARD. I feel like I'm not doing my homework :P

Edited 2014-06-10 01:01 (UTC)

And just to add, re: the suspect– it's called investigative remand or detention. The maximum periods differ from country to country, and also state to state in the US. It's 24 hours in some states, 36 in others; US Federal investigators can enforce a 72-hour investigative detention.

ayrt

It's actually quite hard to knock someone unconscious... concussion, possibly a rated TBI - yes, exactly, and, yet almost every show with some kind of violence has someone getting hit in the head (sometimes multiple times over the life of a show) and never having any real ill effects.

I was actually thinking of either the prosecution declining to prosecute or the charges being dismissed because rights were violated during the interrogation and so anything learned from the interrogation is thrown out when I wrote 'let go'. I oversimplified, sorry. I just think there is a fair amount of police misconduct in procedurals that never seems to have any legal consequences (it's probably realistic that some of it wouldn't, but all of it?).

Medical blunders like the ones you described (when I had TV shows to watch) would have me ranting at the TV. I still do that in some movies, even if I've seen them twice. And those blunders are literally fic!killers for me. I hit the back button. Why? I've been pummeled, also have been tossed off horses, etc. a fracture/concussion-related headache is HELL. So I'm like, "Why don't those writers have compassion for their poor characters?!" Most of the time they don't even get Tylenol :P

And yes, the entire case can be thrown out even before trial, or a procedural/conduct violation can result in a judge dismissing the case. But usually if there are proc/conduct violation allegations, they're investigated separate from the trial. The suspect's trial would be adjourned pending. Then the outcome of the investigation would be made known to all parties. Either the defense would demand a mistrial or the prosecuting attorneys would announce withdrawal of charges (this would definitely result in the defense seeking damages), and also, the judge may just gavel on the whole thing independently (that's always the judge's right).

I often wish that Law&Order fans had paid attention to those Trial Part numbers, and had actually looked them up. Perhaps their fic would've been better—Well, one can only hope.

Honestly, I think expecting a fic writer to learn the ins and outs of various legal systems is kind of ridiculous. I guess in the Law and Order fandom it might be different, but even then, the shows themselves are rarely realistic depictions of the legal system (particularly timeline-wise).

That said, all my head injuries have made me actually more sympathetic to the way they're portrayed in fiction. If my life followed some of those writer's guides, I'd be 'unrealistic' so I don't really care. It's a dramatic plot device that's been around since radio, so I don't begrudge fic writers for using it.

I would definitely go with realism, though I'd probably include a note explaining why I made the change and that I understand if people might not like it. But if I wrote any of the fics that I've been wanting to write it'd be for me, since it's stuff I headcanon.

Reality always trumps canon when the reality is available on the level of a layperson, and the canon is blatantly wrong. The transporters in Star Trek can work by magic for all I care, but having non-supernatural people survive a bullet through the chest with no consequences is just bad research.

If I can't reconcile the two in some way, then yes. But I usually try to make them make sense together, especially if it's a topic I know well, like, say, academia, or the geography of certain cities.

I really wish writers would actually verify the things they think they know.

Absolutely! In fact, one of my favorite things is when reality is reconciled with canon or used to explain or undermine or change the meaning of canon in some way.

I also really like to see believable in-story explanations for insurmountable canon/reality divergence. I like to see fic writers putting that kind of thought into canon.

I also spend way too much time on research.

Depends. If it's something that's central to the canon then...no, reality doesn't trump. But if it's just details/wouldn't massively change the canon [unless you're doing an AU] then go for it!

I prefer canon to realism. If I enjoy a stupid illogical show I'd like to continue enjoying it in fic.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2715 ]

Fic writers and readers – does reality ever trump canon?

Re: Fic writers and readers – does reality ever trump canon?

Re: Fic writers and readers – does reality ever trump canon?

Re: Fic writers and readers – does reality ever trump canon?

Re: Fic writers and readers – does reality ever trump canon?

Re: Fic writers and readers – does reality ever trump canon?

Re: Fic writers and readers – does reality ever trump canon?

Re: Fic writers and readers – does reality ever trump canon?

Re: Fic writers and readers – does reality ever trump canon?

Re: Fic writers and readers – does reality ever trump canon?

Re: Fic writers and readers – does reality ever trump canon?

Re: Fic writers and readers – does reality ever trump canon?

Re: Fic writers and readers – does reality ever trump canon?

Re: Fic writers and readers – does reality ever trump canon?

Re: Fic writers and readers – does reality ever trump canon?