[ SECRET POST #2719 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2719 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Jared Leto, Doctor Strange]


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03.
[WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$]


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04.
[Star Trek: The Next Generation]


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05.
[Odd Thomas]


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06.
[Murdoch Mysteries]


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07. http://i.imgur.com/4VlZYj4.png
[porny, illustrated]


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08.
[Big Time Rush]


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09. [SPOILERS for Game of Thrones]



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10. [SPOILERS for Game of Thrones]



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11. [SPOILERS for OUaT]



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12. [SPOILERS for Game of Thrones]
http://i.imgur.com/U7UnmUI.png
[gore]


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13. [WARNING for abuse]

[Lie to Me]


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14. [WARNING for dub-con/non-con/etc]



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15. [WARNING for suicide]

[Rick and Morty]






























Notes:

Might be ANOTHER 12 am day. Response time will again be slow, sorry.

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #388.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Because the authors label their fic as dubcon but then present dubcon as something that is ok. they are going "Well one of those guys was coerced into having sex because of [insert blackmail here]. BUT he ended up enjoying it, so it is cool and they will fall in love."

What you never see is "Well this guy was coerced to have sex. And physically he responded to what was happening. But this is rape. RAPE. This is NON-consensual. This is not okay. And it should not be seen as such."

Labeling something as dub-con (really dubcon would be rape in the real world) does not mean that suddently young people are not going to absorb the idea that those kinds of things are acceptable.

[(Anonymous)]

Not to be nit-picking, but there's a difference between dubcon and noncon. To me, and to a lot of other people.

Being coerced (physically or merely emotionally) into sex and not enjoying it (regardless of whether your body is reacting) is rape and should be labelled as such (or as noncon).

Dubcon on the other hand is usually written as that blurry line that includes two drunk people having sex, persuasion where they both enjoy it once they get going, etc. I personally wouldn't consider two equally inebriated people fucking each other rape, even if there's the chance they wouldn't have done it sober. That's where the dubious comes in. It's not that it IS unconsented, it's more of a warning that some people could see it that way, or that in a different situation it might be.

And none of fics I've read that are labelled dubcon (or noncon) have ever been touted by the author as "This is totally awesome and right and everyone should endorse this."

The whole point of a dubcon tag is to let readers know that the issue of consent in that fic is/could be considered dubious in real world settings. That this is probably something you shouldn't be doing.

I don't think properly labelled rapefic is contributing to rape culture if it's written with genuine repercussions. I wrote a fic that involved kidnapping, rape, and borderline stockholm syndrome. That doesn't mean I think any of those things are okay, and that's the way they were treated in that fic. That those were BAD THINGS being done by a BAD PERSON. There was no happy ending, no rape-is-love, no ~they secretly liked it~.

[(Anonymous)]

BUt that is the thing, most dubcon fic (which again in the real world would be considered RAPE) is not written with genuine repercussions. And I am not saying authors can't write it, I am just saying if you do don't act like you have some kind of moral high ground in regards to media that might "influence rape culture".

because regardless of how you label it, it is still rape that is presented as okay. And young people are still going to consume it and be influenced by it (even if it has a one word tag of dubcon).

[(Anonymous)]

You keep saying, "because regardless of how you label it, it is still rape that is presented as okay". But it's not. I have never written (or read) a noncon/rape fic that was presented as, "This is awesome."

Dubcon, maybe not presented as 'okay', but more of a 'this could happen' scenario. People get drunk. People have sex while drunk. Maybe they wouldn't have had sex with that person if they both hadn't been drunk. I'm not talking one person is passing-out-drunk and the other is stone cold sober, because that falls under the definite noncon/rape umbrella to me.

And presenting a rapefic as a rapefic where rape is wrong and then objecting to something (a song, a BL novel, whatever) that DOES say rape is okay if they enjoy it, or rape is okay if they fall in love later is not ~acting like you have a moral high ground~. They're two different things.

That's like saying writing a Dexter fic about murder but then objecting to real world crime/murder isn't allowed because you wrote a fic that ~glorified~ murder/crime. They're two different things. Two different spectrums. You can't say to every writer, "You can't write that because in the real world it would be wrong." You also can't say, "If you write that, you can't object to things that are wrong in the real world."

[(Anonymous)]

Then people need to learn how to label properly. Because some things I see labeled as dubcon (someone being drugged, someone being blackmailed into having sex, someone telling the person no but then giving in) isn't dubcon.

[(Anonymous)]

And it's okay to think that people need to learn the difference between dubcon and noncon/rape and that things should be labelled. I fully agree with that.

When it comes to things like rape or extreme violence, or really anything that could be something someone would want to avoid in writing, it's often better to over label and lose a few readers (or choose a "I don't use warnings, you COULD find nasty things here, read at your own risk" label which puts the onus on the reader to either skip or read and accept responsibility) than not label something properly.

I just don't like the idea that someone who understands that rape is wrong but still writes fiction that touches on topics isn't allowed to object to real world instances where rape or consent issues are portrayed as okay. You can write about something and still agree that it's a bad thing.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, for some people rape ending in happily ever after is a type of story they like. The "okay"ness of it within the story is part of the appeal. Is a "dubcon" not enough indication that the author knows writing a story where it's okay isn't the same as saying if the same thing really happens to a real person it's okay?

[(Anonymous)]

If it's "rape with a happy ending," call it "rape with a happy ending." Or "'non con' with a happy ending," if that's what you insist on labeling rape now.

[(Anonymous)]

Dubcon has two definitions - scenarious involving dubious consent, and "rape with a happy ending," where nothing is dubious whatsoever.

Why people insist on using the dubcon tag for the latter scenario baffles and frustrates me.

[kallanda_lee]

But that's...sort of the genre. It can be acceptable in-universe.

I agree the whole "dubcon" concept IS fiction, because in r/l it's generally either consensual or it's not.I guess there could be cases where both parties go "what the hell did we just do", but fact is "dubcon" isn't really a real word term.

But that's sort of the point of it - you write people's motivations in a certain way, where it makes sense in-universe IN FICTION.

[(Anonymous)]

To be fair, I'd basically call all sexual contact where both parties are equally drunk as "dubious consent" - and that happens quite often.

[(Anonymous)]

Where are these "most authors"? I haven't seen a single author call their fic of dubcon being "totally awesome and okay irl too". You are trying to mix freaking kinks from kink memes with real life. It doesn't really work out like that. Dubcon is mostly a fanfiction term to warn the readers that while it's not outright rape, there's still some questionable consent going on. Non-con is outright rape, dub-con has blurred lines. I like to browse kink memes but I do not read stuff which is labeled as non-con. However, I read dubcon (while being fully aware of the consent issues mind you). Heck, most of my favorite pairing are villain/hero ones so there's pretty much always some dubious things going on. Still doesn't mean it has to be outright rape though. This is why I really like that there is this "dubcon" label. Makes it easy to find fics which aren't totally out from my comfort zone.

[(Anonymous)]

And oh... just giving an example of dubcon in these said hero/villains pairings:

In one of them a hero solved a situation by using sex as a weapon. The villain hadn't made any moves towards her before that but when she showed her (fake) interest, he answered, not knowing it was just an act. In reality the hero wasn't interested but kept the mask on and slept with him in order to surprise him. And she succeeded.

While this scenario indeed has some dubious things going on, you can not call it actual rape. Because both of them kind of consented but in truth she only did it in order to gain something else and the villain got fooled into thinking she was attracted to him. For these type of things it's excellent to have a tag for dub-con.