[ SECRET POST #2728 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2728 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 069 secrets from Secret Submission Post #390.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[crunchysunrises]

I don't think I said it was a horrible, horrible trauma for anyone? If anything, you were the one who cried "Think of the parents! How do you know how that feels?" To which, I said I didn't but I imagined that it would be comparable to the teen's discomfort.

So it's fair to say, I don't see the horrible, horrible trauma and rift that will be caused in a family in the kid says, "Hey, in this entire refrigerator full of vegetables, I want this little drawer here for my personal meat locker. Thanks."

Frankly, I don't see the difference between your friend's "disrespect" in sullying her family's household with meat products when they aren't there versus a teen who's "disrespectful" by being honest. They're doing the same thing, except one's respectful enough to just level with her parents like they're, you know, adults.

And I'm not sure why you're lecturing me about the joys of deferred gratification or why you feel comfortable stating how I understand deferred gratification versus denial, especially since we've talked twice, including this time, and the other time, it was mostly you explaining Judaism and being incredulous about people who do faith over medicine. You're projecting. Stop it.

[ketita]

In this particular friend's case the parents knew about the meat, it wasn't a secret, it was simply something they preferred not be done in front of them, which the daughter respected. And the parents didn't want leftovers thrown out because they didn't condone wasting food.
Either way, I think that the parents and child should come to an agreement both can live with, but I do think that the child insisting on having meat if the parents are uncomfortable with it is ultimately disrespectful.

As to deferred gratification vs. denial, I admit, I do see the parents' side more in that it is their household. The child can grow up and make their own decisions, and the parents can support the child making their own decisions, but it's also reasonable for them to have certain rules concerning what goes on within their house. I believe that not eating meat is within reason.

It seemed to me that your argument was based on conflating deferred gratification with denial (since you said that "no X in the house" was denial, whereas I see it as permitting it everywhere but within the house, i.e. deferred gratification). I apologize for the misunderstanding and for jumping to conclusions and will endeavor to read more carefully in the future.

I had not understood the mindset of faith over medicine, and I appreciated you explaining it to me. I just reread our previous conversation, and I explained the Orthodox mindset because I had the impression that there was a question about Orthodox Judaism being against vaccination, and I truly appreciated your input. My questions were honest, because while I had encountered people who had a mindset of refusing medication for religious reasons, I hadn't been aware that it extended to disease prevention and was surprise.

[crunchysunrises]

Eh, I'm kind of over this vegetarianism convo, to be honest. It was fun at first but, frankly, we're not going to agree and the last bit soured me on it all.

I actually really appreciated the explanation about Orthodox Judaism. It's not something that I encounter a lot. (I also admit that I pretty much assumed it was a religious thing without knowing what faith the actress was. Conditioning, I suppose.)

While it's not my brand of faith, as I understand it, it's all encompassing. Like, if you get bitten by a poisonous snake, your limb rotting off or you dying of the venom is a sign of not having enough faith. If your child develops cancer, it's to the faith healers, not the children's cancer ward.

(Of course, in cases involving minors, the state usually steps in to force medical treatment for the child, assuming that someone bothers to inform the state that this is going on. It's all around sad because everyone is genuinely trying to do what they think is best (and usually fighting viciously) for a very sick kid who doesn't need any sort of extra stress just then. But if the state didn't intervene, the kid wouldn't survive, so it's unavoidable. And I'd imagine that sort of situation would be hard on (or possibly the death of) that sort of extreme faith, but I don't really know.)

[ketita]

I respect that (and you're right, we won't agree, and there's nothing wrong with that). I just apologize for being overly aggressive and leaving you with a bad taste over it all.

Hmm, okay, I guess I can see where they're coming from (though I do disagree). I suppose the theological issue I see with that view is that if so, we shouldn't give to charity either, because obviously if God wants people to have money, He will provide. And yet we're supposed to help others, therefore that's a philosophical basis for not everything being down to just faith...

I'm not sure if for example the death of the child would be the death of the faith for everybody. I think often extreme faith like that comes with coping mechanisms/explanations for that sort of situation.

Once again, I do apologize, and I hope we'll be able to have interesting and productive conversations in the future.

[crunchysunrises]

Oh hey, no problem. I can be overly aggressive too (and do the bad taste thing too) so I totally get it. Don't worry! I'm not upset!

I... don't actually know if they do charity. I mean, I'd assume so, but that's based more on my own life experiences. I don't actually know.

I agree that it might not be the death knell for everyone, but I think it might be for some. (Saving the child through modern medicine might be equally faith-rocking, though.)

But I think every faith has its zealots that make the rest of the practitioners sigh and hide their faces.

Don't worry! (Or alternatively, apology accepted? Whichever would make you happier.) We'll probably talk in the future! (The productivity of my replies will probably depend on the topic, though. For instance, I have nothing productive to say about puppies... other than that they're adorable!)