fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2730 ]

[ SECRET POST #2730 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2730 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 045 secrets from Secret Submission Post #390.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Yeah, I get that, but doesn't mean it's not annoying XD I have characters I dislike, but I don't go around writing manifestos on why they're the absolute worst and accuse people of ~isms when they say they like them.

Well, I'd turn the question back at you. How has Hange demonstrated her empathy?
Especially with Eren, I'd argue she's more scientifically interested in him than worried about his physical or emotional wellbeing. I don't recall hardly any instances of her trying to comfort other characters and the like, either.
Even the scene with Levi's big speech about freedom, tbh to me it read a bit more as her wanting to get the conversation back on track than necessarily wanting to explain his worldview (because imo, that's not what he was saying...)

Btw, I'm not hating on Hange! I really like her, and I find her absolutely fascinating as a character. ~~unlike SOME people~~ I have no problem with characters not being paragons of virtue. I do think, however, that she's not the most balanced person around.

I've seen things like people bashing Levi for 'abusing' Historia in one of the recent chapters, which is pretty ridiculous. From my experience, a lot of the fandom also just seems to have a goal of looking for 'problematic' things, so they can self righteously complain about it.

I have poor memory, but I hope these are good examples of how Hanji has demonstrated empathy
-when she leads attacks she always makes sure to pull back when it starts getting too dangerous, and she never places any of her team in unnecessarily dangerous situations. I think it's notable, regarding how careless she is of her own safety.
-the fact that she was genuinely upset when she learned that she'd been conducting experiments on humans, and seemed to realize how devastating reporting this information would be for the others.
-the fact that she was able to empathize with and care about Pastor Nick, despite him being an 'enemy' and withholding vital information.
-when she interacts with characters like Armin, she's always considering of what they have to say, and does things to make them feel more comfortable - I'm thinking of the scene when they're in the wagon

Of course, I'm not saying Hanji is perfect and always understanding of people around her. But I think it's kind of unfair to say she's just the crazy scientist (especially as her kookiness often seems to be a facade.)

ach, the Historia abuse. I've gotten to the point where I just unfollow anybody who reblogs that stuff.

Hmm. The attack thing I would argue is more just not being as nutso as Erwin when it comes to sacrificing lives. Frankly, when training a soldier takes THREE YEARS they are not actually particularly disposable. It's common sense to keep as many from getting killed as possible... their situation is completely unsustainable.

I don't remember her being so upset, but I think possibly for me it was offset by how when she experiments on Eren she seems to forget he's a person, a little. And also, like I said, the torture scene, where she was basically acting the same way she does when experimenting on titans etc. I do think it's a kind of defense mechanism for her, a sort of mindset she gets into in order to deal with stuff.

I agree with you on the scenes with Armin, but there were other similar scenes where she didn't show empathy - like with Connie's village, for example. It's kind of spotty with her, in a way.

And I 100% don't consider her "the kooky scientist". I do personally see her a little bit that she allows herself to be swept away by the science or whatever, but she is very shrewd and calculated. I just think she's more calculating than empathetic. I really do find Hanji very interesting.

I do see your points, though. I feel like a reread is in order for me to get more of a handle on her XD

I just think she's more calculating than empathetic.
I agree that Hanji is shrewd and calculating, but I think characters like Erwin and Armin are better examples of that. (and I also think that Erwin and Armin aren't characters necessarily lacking empathy either). For example, after Pastor Nick was killed, Hanji was pretty shaken up over it, and it took encouraging from Levi to get her back in action and start coming up with a plan.

She also obviously does seem to believe that making sacrifices in order to get results from her experiments is necessary. But I don't think it means she doesn't have any empathy; if I remember correctly she disliked doing things like torturing the titans.

That's a fair point to make about the soldiers. But still, she doesn't strike me as someone who doesn't care at all about what happens to people either.

And now I feel like I'm trying to prove that Hanji is some kind of angelic and virtuous character, which I'm certainly not. But I think she has shown that she is capable of caring about others and being empathetic. ..I also realize I'm coming across as defensive, and I didn't mean to imply you thought she was just a kooky scientist. I'm also admittedly a Hanji fangirl, so maybe some of my bias is showing too.

Haha, it's okay! We all stan the characters we love, so a certain amount of bias is to be expected.

But see, in terms of Hange - yes, I think she's more calculating than empathetic, but that doesn't mean that Erwin and Armin aren't MORE more calculating than empathetic XD
In that sense, I'd put Levi and Eren on the more empathetic than calculating scale, along with Jean. Mikasa is.... mostly neither particularly empathetic nor calculating, she's just singleminded imo.

Again, just because I say that I don't think empathy is her strong point doesn't mean that she's not empathetic at all. It's just that for me, when I think on her character, what stands out the most are the bits where she's a bit creepy and 'off'. Maybe it's because I see her as having a bit less self-control, kind of like Eren. She throws her emotions out there, maybe a bit more dramatically than necessary, and I think it is a kind of coping mechanism for her.
Contrast to Levi, who also commits violent acts he doesn't necessarily want to do, but he does them with minimum fuss and rigid self-control.

Ah, I do have a gripe about Armin. I think he's a classic example of telling but not showing. Armin hasn't actually done very much strategizing at all. He's clever in a connecting-the-dots type way, but I have yet to see a strategy from him that made me go wow.

It's a sliding scale and there's plenty of room for everybody XD

... Wow, you're right about Armin. He had a really neat plan with the gun elevator during Trost but since then we've had nothing.

Now, that might be because he now works under people whose job it is to stategise as opposed to when the trainees were alone and had to rely on their own wits. But it's a shame that he hasn't been able to come up with a plan since, especially that we're getting into massive conspiracy stuff that needs a lot of plans.

Honestly I think it'd be awesome if Armin was the key planner behind our people's revolution ideas.

tbh, the gun-elevator thing was tactics, not strategy. We have no major evidence that Armin is any good at strategy at all. Even the thing with capturing Annie was relatively small-time in scale, and he didn't plan it alone. Armin is clever, but imo fandom is kind of off with characterizing him as a brilliant strategist.

Actually, what I think would be interesting is a tactical team-up between Armin and Levi. Levi has the physical abilities to back up a lot of plans, and his spatial skills are outstanding. Armin's got creative ideas that are slightly bigger than a single person; they might work well together.

Though, and this is something I am rather happy about (and kind of alone in): I am happy Armin hasn't been doing crazy battle plans. AoT has enough elements of vague realism that the thought of some tiny 15 year old with a few months of combat experience outthinking soldiers who have been surviving for years against incredible odds? It's the shounen thing, or the YA thing. But not very realistic imo.

Then again, my major gripe is that Isayama doesn't actually know how to write clever plans, so it's not the characters' fault.

Haha, I actually had to remember that tactics and strategy are two different things and look them up. You're right, Armin is more tactics than wide-scale strategy like Erwin. Which isn't a bad thing, certainly, but he's not a mini-Erwin.

Some people have made the point that JEAN is a better strategist because he's better at sizing up a situation and acting decisively. It's sad that fandom focuses on Jean's teenage dorkiness than remember that he's just as sharp as Armin.

I agree that the Armin/Levi team-up would be quite terrifying. Everyone is so heavily into Levi/Eren - both shipping and otherwise - that other good combos are forgotten. (Like Levi being close combat while Sasha sniping from long range would be hardcore awesome.)

You've got a good point about Armin shouldn't be better than experiences soldiers. Heck, I think the manga makes the point that one of the major reasons why Levi picked a bunch of trainees for his team is because a massive loss of experienced soldiers. The kids have been through a whole fucking lot but Levi and company have done it for YEARS.

Yeeeaaahh, Isayama is biting off more than he can chew. I don't fault him; making clever plans even as the author is pretty hard and I've only seen a small handful of writers actually pull it off. Even most thriller/mystery films don't quite manage most of the time. The problem is writing clever characters is much harder than writing badass ones.

BTW, considering that we talked about the revolution idea, would you mind if I shot some of my draft ideas your way? I've made good headway on the symbol for the revolution but I'd like some feedback.

Considering that I can't even remember if Levi has talked to Armin like... at all, ever, I can kind of forgive fandom for not doing much interaction-wise. I would definitely love more of it, though!
Oooh, Sasha sniping would definitely be awesome. I also would actually like writing some Levi/Jean, or Levi+Jean, but in recent chapters Jean has been so antagonistic towards Levi I'm not sure what to do with it :X

Like I said, it's the shounen/YA thing. We've expected in these genres that everything ultimately is up to the kids who are somehow more talented and carry the hopes on their backs etc. etc. You know who did that right? Ender's Game. Because they made a whole SCHOOL for super-mega-brilliant kids, isolated them from age 10, and did nothing but military and strategic training for years. So there it was believable that they might actually be great commanders despite their age. Here? eh.

You're right. Writing clever plans is hella tough; way more difficult than Rule Of Cool. But I think Isayama is getting better at tactics and battle, so it's a shame he doesn't do more of it.

Ohhhh yes I'd love to see! PM? Email? :DDDDD please shoot them my way!

I'd argue that being in the Scouting Legion is the ultimate baptism of fire, where you either get good or you get dead. So I allow a little bit of leeway for the kids to be pretty talented alongside the adults. But otherwise I agree; in fact it's one of my most hated cliche tropes, especially in anime. God forbid they have main characters over 21.

Either PM or email is fine! Now I actually have to get off my butt and finish the draft for the symbol. I should be done tonite or tomorrow (but then I'm Aussie time, so :P)

I do agree that Hanji has had her creepy and unhinged moments, but those usually aren't common occurrences for her. I'd say most of the time she seems capable of being professional and self controlled.
I also agree that Levi can be more empathetic than Hanji in a lot of regards. But I think she still can be a very empathetic and human character. For example, her reaction when she goes with Connie to his village: http://mangapanda.net/Shingeki-no-Kyojin/51/32/ Or how upset she becomes after she finds out that Pastor Nick was tortured and killed. http://mangapanda.net/Shingeki-no-Kyojin/52/12/ , http://mangapanda.net/Shingeki-no-Kyojin/52/23/
Anyways, I'll stop my defense of Hanji there. I get that you don't think she's evil or anything, haha.

Yeah, Armin's usefulness so far seems to be his ability to make deductions from situations (although I think he did come up with the plan of capturing Annie in Stohess?). I almost feel like his rep as a master strategist is more fanon, than anything.

Those are good finds, and you're right. She's not unaffected. Though at the same time you'll note, I think her instances of reaching out to others who are in pain aren't that many.
Hey, I do like Hange! Actually, you're making me like her more, now. I haven't had the opportunity for a good conversation about her =)
~~so how do you feel about levihan~~

Yes, it is TOTALLY fanon, argh. But heaven help you if you dare say it!
He did come up with the plan in Stohess, but let's be fair - how complicated was that plan? "Lure Annie underground". And it didn't work.
What was more impressive was him noticing the details to allow him to connect the dots and realize it was her - but again, that's analysis, not strategy.

Yeah, Hanji definitely sucks at reaching out to the people around her/comforting others. But I still wouldn't say it's completely due to a lack of empathy on her part, because again, she has shown compunctions about people suffering. I feel like it's more like her being so much inside her own head?
It was fun to talk about Hanji! And I do realize I can be a bit stan-ish about her (and it makes me happy that you're liking her more now, haha).
For some reason I just can't ship Levi and Hanji, although I totally love their friendship.

Armin fans honestly love to act like his character is the boy savior of the series. I kind of wonder if they're compensating for all the hate he gets by a lot of the other fans.

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