fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2732 ]

[ SECRET POST #2732 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2732 ⌋

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(Sort of related to the thread the other day about whether or not you'd stop being friends with someone over their political views.)

What would be a total deal killer for you in a friendship? I have a lot, which makes me feel pretty judgmental. :-/

* excessive drug/alcohol use - I'm not into either and hanging out with people who only want to get wasted is very boring
* being into a lot of woo-woo nonsense - I feel like if someone is going to be in homeopathy, ancient aliens and the healing power of reiki, for example, they're not going to be pleasant to deal with on a lot of issues that call for logic and reasoning
* being anti-gay, anti-bodily autonomy or racist - all issues which affect me personally, so I can't really trust a friend whose politics are motivated by these things

You known, I can actually put up with a lot of stuff, but...

- a genuinely vicious or malicious nature
- Being overly judgmental of other people (this includes things like overt homophobia or racism)
- Being very dogmatic and inflexible about life views.
- Inequality in the friendship (I.E I always have to be there for you, but you're not there for me).

These seem reasonable to me and I pretty much agree. I've been friends with people who fit one or more of these and...well, those friendships didn't work out so well.

Wow, that's pretty much my rules of friendship!

+ infinity. That's not friendship, that's cold-hearted exploitation.

-very picky drinkers/eaters: i'm a food and alcohol enthusiast and that'd just drive me crazy
-people who don't smoke/drink and are preachy about it: like i said, i enjoy drinking alcohol and getting drunk, and if someone has a problem with that, i won't bother getting to know them
-compulsive liars

What about not smoking and not wanting you to smoke around them? Is that "preachy"? Like, are you going to not respect my right to not inhale your carcinogens? If so that's kind of fucked up.

i never said that? dude, i don't even smoke. and if i did, i wouldn't smoke around people who asked me not to. it's common courtesy.
i just said that i hate people who whine about how you shouldn't smoke because it's bad for you and you'll get cancer and bla bla bla every time they see a friend smoking. that's what i meant by 'preachy'.

"being into a lot of woo-woo nonsense - I feel like if someone is going to be in homeopathy, ancient aliens and the healing power of reiki, for example, they're not going to be pleasant to deal with on a lot of issues that call for logic and reasoning "

You know, even my most down to earth friend, even my friend who works as a theoretical physicist for frickin' CERN in Switzerland has had experiences they cannot explain. As a consequence, both of them believe in ghosts.

Other friends of mine are perhaps not so down to Earth in general, but find comfort in practices I don't necessarily believe in - such as religion, and yes even 'woo woo' practices like Reiki.

I may not believe in the paranormal, but just because someone else does believes does not make them unworthy as human beings. None of this makes my friends incapable of rational thought. People have individual experiences that shape their lives, experiences you weren't privy to. Surely people can believe what they wish and find comfort in life where they want, so long as it doesn't harm anyone.

To be honest, it sounds as if people are better off without you judging their lives.

Having experience you can't explain is just life... and it's completely different than being into a bunch of woo woo things that have little basis in reality.

As for the idea that it doesn't harm anyone? Belief in unproven nonsense harms plenty of people. Look at the anti vaccine movement, which is only the tip of the iceberg of people spending time and resources on medical treatments that don't work, thereby negatively affecting their own health or the health of their children. Look at the people who spend money they can't afford on psychic readings. Look at the heartless charlatans who claim they can contact the dead and therefore con grieving people out of their money.

I'm okay with judging people like that, and while they might be worthy human beings, it doesn't mean they make great friends... which is what the anon was talking about.

What you appear to be saying is that my friends, i.e. people who have had experiences they chose to deal with in their own way and do not push their beliefs on others, are synonymous with charlatans who prey on the vulnerable, and people who make medical decisions based on fear as opposed to scientific evidence.

There's a world of difference there.

My point was having a belief in the paranormal does not make you an irrational human being. It certainly doesn't make you a financial predator, or someone who advocates what is tantamount to child abuse.

Personally, I enjoy people being different and having different experiences in my life. Every single friend I have is wonderful, generous and loyal and they all have wildly disparate beliefs on these subjects. And yet we all get on well. *shrugs*

Re: Friendship deal killers

(Anonymous) - 2014-06-27 00:34 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Friendship deal killers

(Anonymous) - 2014-06-27 03:51 (UTC) - Expand

DA

it doesn't mean they make great friends...

How does being open and/or vulnerable to idea that there is something else out there mean someone, across the board, wouldn't be a good friend (which is essentially the judgement OP is making)? That, to me, is a very illogical statement.

Everyone has their vices. Everyone has their blind spots. You might as well say that people who buy into the latest dietary fads are universally bad friends.

(Also, please don't lump the anti-vaccine movement in with new-age beliefs, I agree with you that the anti-vaccine movement is very dangerous but it's also not the same thing as the rest of what you're talking about.)

There is a pretty big difference between someone simply believing something that's unproven and someone acting on a set of beliefs in such a way that it harms others.

This.

I have friends who are die hard atheists who mock anything that is even remotely 'woo woo' - scientists and non-scientists alike. I also have friends who are into homeopathy (which I personally think is junk). In terms of religion I have Hindu friends whose families decide important dates based on astrological predictions, and I have Christian friends who believe God has affected their lives in the here and now.

Personally, I am a very level headed, down to earth, straight forward person who will be one of the first people to call 'bullshit' on something I think is junk or badly thought out. But I am also an agnostic who is open to spirituality, who has dabbled in astrology and Tarot and who has seen a psychic and had their predictions come true.

Why am I saying all this? Because it sounds like that if I had OP's attitude I wouldn't have chosen not to be friends with most of these people, despite the fact that they are all lovely, kind, intelligent, interesting people. And it sounds like OP would also not be friends with me. Which, you know, I'm fine with. But in general, I choose not to cut people out of my life just because they have different spiritual beliefs to me - it's the way they act otherwise which is the deal breaker (and should be for everyone).

Re: Friendship deal killers

toku_mei - 2014-06-27 01:57 (UTC) - Expand

It seems silly, but I have this friend who's kind of rude to waitstaff at restaurants. She doesn't yell at them or anything, but there's this bizarre personality change that occurs where she goes from being her usual laid back self to Her Majesty the Queen of I Said I Wanted TWO Slices of Lemon in My Water. Like she's ordering around servants.

I feel awkward as hell about it and try to leave generous tips to make up for her behavior but I honestly don't know what to say to her.

I have nothing to add except for this quote.

A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person. ~Dave Barry

The last two. I don't particularly what people do for fun, but the end result is the same because people who mostly focus on partying don't really have much in common with people who don't.

Also, people who don't know when to stop arguing and who get angry when the other person disengages.

People who spend a lot of time talking about themselves, or their personal life, to the near-exclusion of everything else. I have one friend like that, I don't need any more, peas and thenk yew.

People who believe in conspiracy theories like chemtrails.

People who think constantly bringing up Obamacare and Benghazi regardless of appropriateness constitutes a discussion.

I'm trying to think of cases where I've actually actively stopped being friends with someone, rather than just letting us drift apart, and can only come up with two cases (one of which was an ex-boyfriend, so that's a special case).

In the ex's case, I actively shut him out of my life due to us having completely incompatible foundational beliefs (we had really similar surface interests, which is why we got along well enough to date at first), and the fact that he had no other actual friends. I'm not being anyone's entire social circle.

In the other case, he *seriously* screwed with another friend. I'll break of the friendship immediately if you intentionally hurt another friend in a meaningful way. I can forgive little screw-ups, everyone does that, but there are lines not to be crossed.

I just need irl "friends" who aren't alcoholics. I don't hang out with them much because it always involves going to the bar, or drinking. I'm trying not to drink anymore. Also, friends that aren't biphobic.

But, I don't have enough friends to afford to drop anyone definitely so I just deal.

Why are you not drinking anymore, if you don't mind being asked?

Re: Friendship deal killers

fingalsanteater - 2014-06-27 02:35 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Friendship deal killers

(Anonymous) - 2014-06-27 03:38 (UTC) - Expand

+1 drug/alcohol use and anti-gay/racist.

-Gossips/trash talkers.
-Conspiracy theorists.
-People who are into the party/bar hopping life.
-People who don't like anything I like at all.

Not saying they are bad/boring people, just that we would not have anything in common or click at all.

- People who think that their way of life is the only way. This goes for religion, politics, food preferences, "woo-woo" beliefs, anything. Similarly: people who think the only way to be happy is to be attached to someone else.

- People who don't understand that sexuality and gender identity are spectra, not black-and-white categories

- People who judge others for their hobbies or media choices.

I honestly think I'm capable of being friends with almost anyone. Not close friends, but I'm pretty chill. I mean, I've had friends who have had beliefs that are extremely offensive to me (homophobia, and so on) but we sort of learn not to discuss it, and put our friendship first. As long as I can have "normal" conversations with someone - and with almost anyone in the world, you really can, 99% of the topics are not the morality of sexuality, abortion or the death penalty or something - I think I can be "friends" with them. It might be a lot of work to be close friends, but if I care about someone and they care about me, and we have relatively pleasant interactions, and they can respect me enough to avoid certain topics, I don't mind calling them a friend.

I'm sorry if I sound wishy-washy, but honestly, I've had a lot of friends in this category.

If they don't speak English.

When someone doesn't think of me enough to treat me like a friend, or abuses me in some way on more than one occasion.

I suppose if they're a homophobic, racist, junkie, etc, they might just stay at "acquaintance" status or less.

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