[ SECRET POST #2737 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2737 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 041 secrets from Secret Submission Post #391.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I kind of agree with this, though I actually found Kili/Tauriel kind of sweet in the movie. Mind you, I'm fairly sure Gimli is still the first dwarf to sail into the West with his elf, so there's that.

My major problem with the Kili/Tauriel plotline was that, in injuring Kili so that Tauriel could show up and heal him, the movies have now put Kili, Fili, Bofur and Oin in Laketown while the others are at the mountain. I know the movies have massively diverged from the book by now, but I've no idea how they're going to manage that when it comes to the Negotiations at the Gate or the Battle of Five Armies, considering that it means Bard will in all likelihood have hostages against the treasure. I mean, I could see that being milked for maximum Thorin angst in the throes of gold fever, but it's going to do funny things to Bilbo's choice with the Arkenstone if that's the route they take.

Which is no nevermind, maybe, but it's the reason the inserted Tauriel plotline bugs me. Tauriel herself is kind of awesome, and her and Kili are kind of cute, but ... plotholes and/or plot changes. They make me twitchy.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah. I like Tauriel a lot, but I'm not really down with weird plot changes. Jackson doesn't have the best track record with decisions to fuck around with the plot.

[elaminator]

I'm fairly sure Gimli is still the first dwarf to sail into the West with his elf

I aww'd. Also agreed.

[(Anonymous)]

The whole Kili injured plot line annoyed the crap out of me, but my friend pointed out that as a whole we don't really spend enough time in Laketown to really empathize with the characters so by leaving Kili, Fili, and ... I think Bofur? behind you suddenly care a crap ton more about Smaug being all "I am fire, I am DEATH" and flying off to obviously fuck shit up in Laketown. I still think it's poor writing and is going to cause all sorts of weirdness in the next movie since suddenly you have a slew of hardcore archers in Laketown to take down Smaug as opposed to just Bard.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I don't mind them humanising Bard & Laketown at all, but I don't think they needed to leave half the party there to manage it. We got enough from Bard's trying to smuggle them in and keep them safe to care about him and his family and what happens to them. I think that made enough impact for people to think it matters when Smaug comes to town (and to make everything Thorin said in that speech of his hurt twice as much).

I think we can care enough about Bard and his kids on their own merits, really? Having Fili and Kili in particular still in Laketown and presumably with Bard in the aftermath when he marches on Erebor with Thranduil is going to screw things up, and it makes me nervous.

[(Anonymous)]

I've heard the theory that the four dwarves are left in Laketown to replace the talking ravens. They'll get to the mountain to tell Thorin about the approaching human and Elven armies. If that's the case, then they won't be hostages. I think I've heard some stuff from the actors and behind-the-scenes footage that suggests Kili and Thorin definitely have some time to reconnect so it's possible that they might manage to get back into some alignment with the book later on.

[(Anonymous)]

... That could work. It'll be some real close timing, but that could work. Or here's hoping, anyway.

[(Anonymous)]

You know, it would be a massive change from the book, but you could even have Bilbo handing over the Arkenstone to Bard in exchange for Fili, Kili, and the others. Then instead of "I gave Bard your thingy so he could trade it for gold because you're being a dick," it would be "I gave Bard your thingy so that he could trade it for gold because you're being a dick, but only if he agreed to let the others go back to the mountain with me, because they're more important. You dick."

[(Anonymous)]

I really, really don't want it to end up that way, because it changes the whole tone of the exchange for Bard, Thorin and Bilbo in particular.

In the book, Bard genuinely had legitimate grievances (the dwarves woke Smaug and sicced him on Laketown, he's just killed the dragon for them, a lot of the treasure was from Laketown/Dale so theirs by right, etc) and he was mostly courteous about asking for them despite the armed backup and the fact that Thranduil had showed up to join him. He didn't show up with people's families in his grasp threatening them harm. Though I actually doubt he'd do that, even with hostages, but if Thranduil shows up all bets may be off, and I'm not looking forward to that.

Thorin in the throes of gold fever chose the treasure over the safety of his people, and he ignored everyone's (including his nephews') advice to the contrary, fully intending to sit in a siege until Dain arrived and fixed it for him. When he realised Bilbo's betrayal, he flipped out and almost killed him. However, it's going to ramp him up a level if he actually ignored his captive brethren in order to keep his treasure. Thorin is already building towards flaming tragic asshole, adding that is just overkill.

And Bilbo ... this one's harder to explain, but in the book the exchange was more about Biblo averting/trying to avert future bloodshed, doing his best to keep the peace between three peoples and averting conflict before it started, not about Bilbo having to steal treasure to immediately save/free some of his companions. It kind of ... strips his choice of its larger ramifications, and reduces it to an immediate hostage exchange? It's not about war or peace or the safety of larger peoples, it's about just saving four of his companions the way he's been doing the whole journey. It loses something, makes his choice smaller.

I am sincerely hoping the third movie doesn't end up on that path. But having the four dwarves in Laketown is making me real twitchy.

[(Anonymous)]

Unpopular opinion, but I thought the whole clusterfuck was everyone's fault. There's some interesting meta about trying to see Thorin's side and not being happy with the armies, plus Bard straight up saying he thought the dwarves were dead. The movie so far did make him have motives that weren't about just treasure, but they'll probably strip out what little nuance the situation had before.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed.

I really wanted to love the second movie because it has the rest of my favorite book scenes in it. (Guess who has little to no shits to give for the actual plot of the next film!) But all I could think was, "Filler. This is all filler" over and over again.