fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2742 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2742 ⌋

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Okay, what is with the dislike of they/them????

Can someone explain this to me? WTF is wrong with those words? They're gender neutral FFS.

Yeah. That is why I said They/Them. That seems like the best one to use.

They're plural.

It can be used to refer to either a singuar person or many people. What the hell is wrong with that?

So's 'you' about half of the time, and no one complains about that. There really isn't any reason why people can't adapt to another pronoun doing double duty.

Actually, it really bothers me that 'you' is both plural and singular.

Because it seems illogical to you, or for another reason? *curious*

Yeah, mostly just because it's illogical and imprecise.

It's just so much cleaner if you have separate words for them.

AYRT Hmm yeah I can see that. While all languages have some weird tricks to them, English seems to have a higher-than-normal level of fuckery.

Never try to learn Japanese, then.

Actually, it's not. I agree that it can be ambiguous but having two different pronouns or even three (like in German du/ihr/Sie) is much more complicated. I'm fluent in French but it's always difficult to choose between tu and vous, especially when you're talking to someone for the first time.

My French is very bad, so take this with a grain of salt, but AFAIK the tu-vous distinction is more about formality and varying levels of intimacy with the person you're talking to, not so much about plural and singular.

I don't think having something more like "you" and "you all" would be confusing (except with a single word instead of "you all", I guess).

I sometimes wish we had multiple forms of 'we' to distinguish when it's being used inclusively (ie, the person being addressed is counted) vs exclusively ('we, but not you').

How about "y'all?"

I like it, and I do actually use it, but it'd be nice to have something that wasn't slangy and extremely regional.

Even though they/their had been used as a singular pronoun for centuries beforehand, a rule was establish around the 17-1800s based on Latin grammar that one should use a "gender-neutral" 'he/him/his' instead. Of course this function wasn't really built into the English language, and was never really gender neutral, and backlash in the 20th century involved using either 'she/her/hers' or going by the gender of the author, or using both, as they was "grammatically incorrect", but I find that rule is slowly dying.

Seconding this, and chiming in to add that originally, "you" was actually the plural form, while "thou" was the singular. English lost "thou/thee" and made "you" do double-duty, and over time we started to associate "you" with the singular because we associate the 2nd person with addressing a single person (i.e. in conversation, which is how we use the 2nd person most of the time), rather than groups.

As I understand it, it's even becoming a thing that the SAT is no longer penalizing students for using "they/their" to refer to a singular person if gender is in question (or at least I know that was up for serious debate not too long ago).

Because they/them can be singular or plural. It's confusing.

It feels disrespectful to use it to refer to a person I've already met. Same with "it". IDK.

I, too, wish we had a good one that we could all agree upon.

[ SECRET POST #2742 ]

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