[ SECRET POST #2744 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2744 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.


__________________________________________________



13.


__________________________________________________



14.


__________________________________________________



15.


__________________________________________________



16.


__________________________________________________



17.












Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 059 secrets from Secret Submission Post #392.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[otakugal15]

They do it so they can completely dismiss and discredit Frozen. It may not have been a perfect movie, but of the two, Frozen IS the sister movie.

[kallanda_lee]

I seem to recall this from even before Frozen was made, but it would explain the rekindled interest in it lately.

[ibbity]

Yeah...I mean, it's okay not to like things and all that but even if something's oversaturated like Frozen is, there's no real reason to go to such lengths to "prove" that it sucks, especially when it, y'know, objectively doesn't. It ain't the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it DID focus way the heck more on the sister relationship than Lilo & Stitch did.

[sarillia]

It's A sister movie. I'm not sure why it has to be THE sister movie. I wouldn't describe either one as THE sister movie. I like the sister dynamic in both and I look forward to seeing more. But when Frozen fans say that Frozen is innovative because it's the first to feature sisters, that's just factually wrong and I'm not sure why it's bad to point that out.

[(Anonymous)]

If there are only two examples of sister relationships in Disney animated movies, and they were released 12 years apart, then it IS a mold-breaking concept for the Disney company.

It's usually done in such a dismissive way, and isn't even taking into consideration the circumstances around both fandoms that it becomes almost a moot point.

[sarillia]

I'm curious about what you mean by "the circumstances around both fandoms".

I see what you mean about it being dismissive most of the time. I've been guilty of that even though I love Frozen and am not trying to criticize it when I say that I don't think it's particularly ground-breaking.

[(Anonymous)]

Hmm, I think a better wording would have been 'franchises' instead of fandoms. I really think it's an issue of the time in which both were released, what they aimed to say, and the direction the two franchises took.

Out of the two, L&S is the more mature movie, because it tries to tackle a lot more stuff in a more realistic way. It feels like a movie that was made by adults, for children who are similar to Lilo. It is a movie about family, yes, but it is trying to explore what makes family. It never questions what type of love is important, but says that sometimes it is difficult to live with someone you love.

Frozen is much lighter in that sense; it's aimed at a slightly older audience, it's more adventure-oriented and it did make a lot of marketing-based-storytelling decisions (not that parts of L&S weren't designed to be as cute as possible). But it uses the simple tropes it has to explicitly make the point that romantic love and familial love are equally powerful. It wouldn't have invoked true love's kiss/act otherwise. Disney had been poking fun at itself and its princess tropes for a while (with Enchanted, mainly, but PatF had some of that, too); this one explicitly went for 'these two types of love are equal'.

Consider, though, that L&S spawned a direct-to-video sequel and a series that focused mainly on Lilo and Stitch's adventures, and had fun with the whole cute aliens thing. I'm sure they kept the family message (although I can't be sure as I never paid attention to the sequels) but it was Stitch who became a mascot character. On the other hand, Frozen merchandise centers around Elsa and Anna, and Maleficent followed on its footsteps, making a female bond the important love bond of the movie.

Taking that into consideration, I think the whole L&S vs Frozen argument is entirely myopic and born more out of a need for ammo to denounce Frozen than a genuine need to uphold L&S as a good movie, and that's a huge disservice to L&S. They're comparable in some ways but when it comes down to "Well, THIS movie did it first so there!" (when, again, it is the only other one who did it 12 years ago), it seems completely unnecessary.

[sarillia]

This is a very good comment. I especially like this: "I think the whole L&S vs Frozen argument is entirely myopic and born more out of a need for ammo to denounce Frozen than a genuine need to uphold L&S as a good movie, and that's a huge disservice to L&S". Like I said, that's not where I'm coming from (for me it's like if someone said that Cinderella was the first Disney princess, I'm not trying to insult Cinderella when I point out that Snow White was the first one; it's got nothing to do with the quality of either film) but I think I've been underestimating how many people do mean it this way and how annoying it can be for people like me to repeat the same arguments. I've been in other discussions where it irritated me so much that something only ever came up as a counterpoint and never as something to be talking about on its own merits, so that makes a lot of sense to me. Anyway, I see where you're coming from now.

[diet_poison]

eh, I don't know if I'd say "innovative" but it is important that one is a main plot and the other is a subplot.

[sarillia]

I'm gonna have to "eh, I don't know" right back at you. As much as I love them, I don't feel like the sisters in Frozen interacted very much.

[(Anonymous)]

They didn't interact all that much, but even that had to do with their bond as sisters, or lack thereof. It would be different if they had completely different adventures, and people hailed Frozen as a movie about sisters because they just happened to be female siblings. But not interacting was a problem. Because they are sisters! You follow?

I don't think it's groundbreaking writing or anything, but that they barely spoke is a key-point of the familial love sister theme. They had a pisspoor relationship, and that was bad. Because.. sisters. Time to fix that.