[ SECRET POST #2746 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2746 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 024 secrets from Secret Submission Post #392.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, there was actually a gay male blogger who HATED that Hawkeye Initiative thing. He said that the whole thing was about making character look effeminate and how that was played for laughs (and ridicule). And you can say that, No it is about the exagerrated poses! But everyone was always making fun of how girly they look.

[(Anonymous)]

As a male viewer, I thought the Hawkeye Initiative had a good point, but I don't think it quite got across what it was going for, due to reasons you mentioned.

Male cheesecake and female cheesecake aren't exactly the same, and I think the point would've been much more striking if Hawkeye had been in just-as-ridiculous but very male cheesecake poses instead of blatantly female ones. Magic Mike up that shit! Put him in stupid-but-very-typically-male romance novel cover poses that would leave his entire torso vulnerable! But pecs out ass up heels on doesn't mean the same thing on men.

The forest got lost for the sake of the detailing on the trees.

[(Anonymous)]

SA

What I mean is, when people see men in those poses, they don't automatically think hypersexual. They think funny or stupid or unrealistic but sex doesn't occur to them because that's not how our society sexualizes men.

In order to drive home the point about hypersexuality being stupid and impractical, they should have gone with how men are actually sexualized in order to make every viewer realize it's about how sexy taken too far and practicality given up for the sake of sexiness becomes idiotic.

[(Anonymous)]

You sound really ignorant.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay.

Care to explain why? I'm willing to listen.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

The purpose of the Hawkeye Initiative was to make people look at female sexy-poses with fresh eyes. When a woman is in a spine-arched, chest-out, ass-up pose, the viewer automatically interprets the pose as "sexy" because that's what society has taught us to see. Putting a man in that pose removes the sexual context, allowing the viewer to see the, "Oh God, his spine is severed!" or "How does he expect to punch effectively/aim that weapon/not fall flat on his face in that pose? That's ridiculous!" inherent in the poses.

Male superheroes, for the most part, are drawn in ways that make them convincingly appear to be able to do violence to their opponents. Female superheroes, far too often, are drawn in ways that make it obvious they were traced from porn, even when they're supposed to be fighting. That's what the Hawkeye Initiative is supposed to point out.

[(Anonymous)]

I think the other anon is right in saying that it would be more effective if the men were drawn in exaggerated sexy "men's" poses and draw the women in traditional fight poses.

It would highlight the ridiculousness in a way that is conceivable for the majority and avoid making a joke (however inadvertent) of effeminacy in males.

Instead of nitpicking feminine sexy poses, which are, in fact, achievable by some real women, highlight the inappropriateness of sexuality in the scene.

[(Anonymous)]

Original anon

highlight the ridiculousness in a way that is conceivable for the majority and avoid making a joke

Exactly. As I said in the original comment, I agree the Hawkeye Initiative has a good point to make. But the point is getting lost because the people they're trying to reach are being distracted by what they perceive is a joke about a totally different topic: effeminacy. Which isn't the point at all.

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

I think both lines of thinking have good points.

[raspberryrain]

This. It's not one or the other.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with this!

[(Anonymous)]

Thanks.

It's a little like trying to explain bullying to young boys and girls. Typically, they don't experience the same kind of bullying from other kids their age, due to gender. You can't ask a typical boy to imagine what it's like to be the only one with big boobs everyone makes fun of, and have him take it seriously. Aren't big boobs awesome? What's the problem? If he had boobs it'd be funny as fuck, and it comes off as a joke or as a silly scenario rather than an analogy that he can understand.

Of course there are exceptions to this, but we're talking about trying to speak to the masses.

[allkindsoffur]

In my eye they don't look girly. They just look stupid like hell, just like female characters look in the same poses. We're just so used to it when it concerns women that we don't see the ridiculousness of those 'oversexed' poses.

[kallanda_lee]

I can sort of see it. I LIKE the initiative, but I can also see how some people would use it to make fun of effeminacy in men.