fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2747 ]

[ SECRET POST #2747 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2747 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[The Hobbit/Thorin Oakenshield]

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[The Vincent Black Shadow]

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[El Goonish Shive]

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[Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries]

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[Penny Dreadful]

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[Supernatural]

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[Blake's 7]

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[Edge of Tomorrow/Tom Cruise]

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[Quirk]

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[Homestuck]

18. [WARNING for rape]

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19. [WARNING for rape]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #392.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 (tw: rape) - not!secrets ], [ 1 (?) - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - ships it ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

How does the German school system discuss Nazism in their history classes? Is it just glossed over, discussed in depth, or given no more or less attention than other parts of history?

And how about the general public? I know you can't just go up to someone on the street and be like, "how about them nazis?" But how do they discuss it (especially older generation who was alive and maybe actively participated vs their children/grandchildren)?

When I was in school we discussed nazism in depth starting slowly in elementary school and up until leaving school. In sixtht grade we discussed and read Anne Frank and the surrounding history in literature class (or 'german' as the class is actually called). It was also part of different classes in 'politcs' and history. Seeing as Nazism is also part of World War II History it was practically included in one of the key topics in our final history exams in tweltht grade.

And then there's the various anti-racism campaigns that are run while your in school and that you will at one point or another take part in.

Also various books playing in that time zone are analysed and read in literature class throughout all of your later school years.

unsolicited advice but it's spelled "sixth" and "twelfth"

hope that helps :)

Thanks, saw the error after I was done typing but correction always helps.

DA

Huh, that's a lot like how they taught the Civil Rights movement [the major US one anyways],in the first school district I was in here.

As in the public sphere... you do not talk about this topic. Or rather in my experience you can talk about historical nazism in a cultural setting, read about it in the papers and during exhibitions, talk about it in your studies group but it's not usually discussed between strangers outside of surveys.

You will most likely talk about it at one point with your friends (especially if you meet them during school).

I can't really talk about many old people, but in my family nazism is almost never a topic, the war is. What it did, who fought, who was bombed and had to move, how life was and how my hometown looked. And then there's the fact that most of my living family are either too young (my grandmother was about ten when the war stopped) or was not involved with inner german politics.

Debates about current Nazism/Racism is a whole other shoe. If you find your audience you can hear the whole gamut of opinions from: "those dirty foreigners are taking our jobs' to 'the rise of patriotic parties is worrying and chould be contered by more openess and information".

Nonetheless, bringing Hitler into any non-intellectual discussion is in extremely poor taste.

This is only in my experience and other accounts (expecially from across the country) may prove different.

It got discussed to the point of exaggeration, over and over again, every term. I used to think it was because our school was a former Jewish grammar school and our principal was pretty much obsessed with Nazi Germany (he taught history and latin and published several books), but when I compared that with pupils from other schools it was basically the same everywhere.

General public, well, no. Not really a topic for polite conversation in most cases, because of the inherited shame. Some people will make crude jokes, though, to show you how tough and bad they are. The only example I know from the older generation is my 94 year old grandmother. I typed up her memories a few years ago, and let me tell you, she wrote about the weather and harvest season every year, but never once even mentioned the word Nazi in her writings. She talked about the war, but only in terms of rationing, how to get jobs or furniture for her flat, and how my grandfather got wounded and sent back home.

Was like that at my school, too. There was not a single subject where the topic wasn't discussed at least once. But in subjects like history, there was basically no other topic for years.

To elaborate, now that I'm not on my phone anymore:

We read the first book about it in German class in 6th grade, started with it in history in 7th grade (but only because we had to have some basic historical knowledge first. We probably would have started with it sooner if we'd had the history basics in elementary school). We took a break for a good part of the 8th grade for the French revolution and American independence and all that, but went back to it in 9th grade and more or less stayed with it till the end, with a few exceptions (mostly when it came to "Oh, some of you want to do your final exam in history? Eh, you might need to know about these things then"). No matter what we did, we always circled back to it. We discussed the economical and political things in "Politics and Economics", discussed the involvement (or lack thereof) of the church in Religion (or Ethics), read literature with it as the backdrop in German, English, French and Italian. We discussed the scientists from that time in the Science subjects, talked about the Olympics in P.E., spent a lot of time on the topic of "degenerate art" in Art and I'm pretty sure there was some point where we discussed it in Geography as well. Not every subject soent as much time on it, but it was a topic at least once in each and every single one of them.

I'm not sure about the older generation. The last of my grandparents died in 2001, but he (my grandfather) was not axactly a Nazi sympathiser, which got him into some problems back then.
My other grandfather never talked about it, but I think my father mentioned he was a prisoner of war in Russia. He died when I was pretty young, so I never got to ask about it.
My grandmother's side of the family came from Silesia, so they mostly would talk about the forced migration. I know a woman (a friend of my mother) who is around 80 - she was part of the "League of German Girls", but she was very young then and I'm pretty sure wasn't really aware of what that meant. They had to help out with food supplies, I think - picking mushrooms and stuff like that.
In general, the older generation who wasn't actively involved can be coaxed into talking about it, but the ones who were actively involved usually keep quiet about it.

Talking about it in public is usually a serious business thing. But there are also several comedy shows that have started to make jokes - usually with Hitler as the butt of the joke. But you really shouldn't joke about the crimes they committed - which is why the whole Nazi jokes about the World Cup are not axactly appreciated here. Comparing the Holocaust to a football game is about as cute as if they said "Wow, they totally went 9/11 on them" in a game where an Arabic country won against the US team.

The Nazis today are a different matter. There are two bigger nationalist parties (NPD and REP) and there are repeated talks about banning the NPD but it never happens (not anticonstitutional enough, apparently). There is a big lawsuit going on about a series of murders committed by a group of neo nazis and it's all complicated because people fucked up and there are people involved who were supposed to prevent things like that and... eh.

Yeah, that't basically my experience as well. We started with WWI and Weimar Republic in seventh grade History as a lead in for eight grade History and on, at which point we did Third Reich and WWII until tenth grade, which was a mix of WWII and DDR. From eleventh grade onwards we did Third Reich and WWII again. Then in German class you had, starting eight grade, war literature, post-war literature, and literature from Jewish authors of the time. Sociology also had a focus on Third Reich and WWII starting tenth grade, Religion focused on Nazi Germany in ninth and tenth grade. We also briefly talked about it in Economics(BWR and VWL), but that was mostly focusing on the economic/financial aspects.

The older generation really doesn't talk about it. I had a very enlightening conversation with my mother (60) once; apparently she and her generation never did anything about Nazi Germany in school. Talking about it wasn't done until the 70s/80s, because back in the 50s and 60s the teachers (and all the adults, really) were people who had been Nazis (in the generals sense of having lived in Nazi Germany, not necessarily members of the NSDAP/Gestapo) and their shame actually kept them quiet. It wasn't until the post-war generation grew up that it became a topic that was talked about and taught in school.

And yeah, my grandmother and great aunts/uncles are the same as your grandmother. They will talk about the war or the inflation, but they won't talk about Nazis or Hitler, and the family on my grandfathers side even were refugees who went into hiding two years before the war started and had close Jewish friends.

That's an odd question, why are you asking?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2747 ]

QUestion for Germans or People who have lived there

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Re: QUestion for Germans or People who have lived there