fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2754 ]

[ SECRET POST #2754 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2754 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Of Heroes and Villains, by Minikisa]

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[Orange is the New Black]

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[Axis Powers Hetalia]

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[Lone Survivor]

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[Yasunori Kato, Doomed Megalopolis]

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[Spartacus and Game of Thrones]

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12. [WARNING for underage sex (and probably dub/noncon too)]

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13. [WARNING for rape]

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14. [WARNING for noncon/dubcon]

[Buffy the Vampire Slayer]

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15. [WARNING for child abuse, rape]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #393.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 (tw: rape) - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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A reader just sent me a message complaining that my characters are "too enthusiastic" about sex and that it's "annoying" that everyone involved makes sure everyone else wants it. I'm just shaking my head at this... consent is a good thing! (Unless you want dubcon, in which case go read fic that lists dubcon in the warnings!)

As a writer, your job is to know instinctively what every potential reader wants and be able and willing to cater to their whims. /sarcasm, in case it wasn't obvious

Just ignore them. Or tell them that they can write their own story the way they want. Then ignore them.

Well, I guess it depends on how it's written. If your characters are going through a "Do you want to have sex?" "yes." "Are you sure?" "Yes." rigmarole every time, well, I could see how that would be annoying.

Mte. Also consent doesn't always have to be given explicitely in words, if you do it every time for every character it might read forced.

Sure but dubcon can be written badly too. I read this as less of a complaint about the writing quality and more "Why don't you write what I want to read?" but I guess we'll never know for sure.

Sometimes it reads like the characters suddenly look to the camera and are saying, "And remember, friends, if you spell 'sex' 'sey', it's backwards for 'YES'. Always ask someone you love." Like a message for concerned fic-reading advertisers or something.

Lmao. I haven't read a fic like that, I don't think. I just finished a fic where I wanted to make it clear the sex was both fucked-up and consensual, but I didn't have the dudes explicitly saying "YES I WILL CONSENT TO THE POTENTIALLY RELATIONSHIP RUINING SEX NOW."

Re: That's... generally a GOOD thing

caecilia - 2014-07-19 00:54 (UTC) - Expand

The super enthusiastic consent just reads like a crazy cat lady, or 'political lesbian' not someone who has ever had sex tbqf.

I want a cat.

Hey, crazy cat ladies get loads of tail.

Maybe the 'consent' part is coming off more as a Public Service Announcement than character-driven discussion. Without having read the story in question, it's hard to say if the reader's comments are legit or not. Of course, whether they are legit or not, you have the option to ignore and go on as you will.

Two thoughts. One, maybe you're taking it a bit too personally - maybe your characters actually are talking way too much about how they are all totally consenting to have sex every minute, etc., and I could see how that could get obnoxious. Especially if it sounds like you're trying harder to make a social statement than write porn.

Second, lots of people - maybe most people - don't need their porn to be totally realistic and "safe" by real world standards. Doesn't mean they want to read dubcon. I mean, you can't honestly think that every fic where the characters don't verbally agree to have sex and express, in words, that they really want it and aren't feeling pressured or whatever is dubcon, right? I'd much rather read about characters who just dive straight to bed, tbh, but that's just me. It's a preference thing.

I mean, you didn't really give us a lot of details, so it's hard to agree or disagree with your complaint.

Wow. Bunch of rape apologists in this thread.

Obviously people have issues with seeing consent properly represented. There are way too many sex scenes in fiction that are supposed to be consensual but are actually rape (GoT is notorious for this). I think "too consensual" is a good complaint to receive. It means your character's intentions are clear and consent is present and accounted for. A character should say yes in someway every time you are writing consensual sex.

How the fuck is it rape apology to suggest that a porn fic that reads like an after-school special about consent would be annoying?

Good gosh go back to tumblr

Re: That's... generally a GOOD thing

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-19 01:10 (UTC) - Expand

Re: That's... generally a GOOD thing

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-19 01:20 (UTC) - Expand

Re: That's... generally a GOOD thing

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-19 02:42 (UTC) - Expand

Re: That's... generally a GOOD thing

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-19 03:21 (UTC) - Expand

Re: That's... generally a GOOD thing

riddian - 2014-07-19 03:21 (UTC) - Expand

Re: That's... generally a GOOD thing

insanenoodlyguy - 2014-07-19 02:18 (UTC) - Expand

2/10 too much righteous fury and not enough referencing what people have actually said in this thread

Re: That's... generally a GOOD thing

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-19 01:12 (UTC) - Expand

Re: That's... generally a GOOD thing

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-19 02:14 (UTC) - Expand

Ayrt

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-19 02:33 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Ayrt

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-19 03:27 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Ayrt

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-19 04:22 (UTC) - Expand

Re: That's... generally a GOOD thing

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-19 02:40 (UTC) - Expand

Re: That's... generally a GOOD thing

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-20 16:46 (UTC) - Expand

Well, I can tell someone here hasn't had sex IRL.

Wanker.

Meh. They might want to skim over your sex scenes if it bothered them enough to tell you. Maybe it throws them out or something, and that's fine too! I know I get a bit thrown when I'm reading a fic, and suddenly everyone is an author's mouthpiece on sex positivity and safety etc etc. It's not enough to make me backbutton ~~unless the fic is supposed to be pure smut anyway.~~

Anywho, I always find it hilarious when certain characters who are canonically assholes (let's sayyyyyy Loki) go through a sex checklist.

hmmmm. my first thought was: "that's bullshit and if they want dubcon they should go read dubcon"

but on the other hand, i /have/ read fics where the consent discussion sounded more like a PSA, as several other people have said. perhaps that's what they're getting at?

in those cases, it's not the consent that's bad (not at all!) but the fact that the dialogue sounded stilted, like the entire fic ground to a halt to make a quick announcement about consent. "And now... back to the porn!"

idk maybe that's what they're complaining about? *shrugs*

It depends how you're doing it though. Consent is good, yes, but sometimes it's over the top if they're like, "Are you sure? No, are you really sure? Really? Are you positive?"

As someone who's had a lot of sex, sometimes consent is as simple as a little nod or just a 'yes.' The characters don't need to have a full blown conversation about the sex they're about to have.

And sometimes consent isn't verbal at all - it's shown through actions. The vast majority of people do not stop in the midst of getting it on to ask if their partner really wants to have sex, because at that point the consent is already understood by the fact that the other party is an active and engaged participant.

This is especially true if it's two people who are dating or who have had sex before.

Can't say anything about the "too enthusiastic" about sex comment, but the consent conversations could be annoying depending on how you're writing them.

Are characters with completely different personalities and couples with completely different dynamics having nearly identical consent conversations? Are couples having sex for the first time and couples who've been together for years having the same consent conversation before every instance of sex in your fic? Is the conversation a full-blown back and forth conversation that would appease even the toughest juries in a court-of-law instead of a simple "do you want to have sex?" "yup, let's do this"?

If any of those apply then the scenes could be coming off less as the characters being sure and more as the author using the characters as mouth pieces to be preachy. If you want to have consent clarified that's fine, but for any couple you really only need to have them establish consent once in the fic unless you're using the conversation and the resulting answer/conflict as a plot device.

The way this thread is leaning surprises me, but then, I've read far, far, far more stories where obvious dubcon and noncon is treated as if it's consensual, and given ham-handed excuses by either the narrative or some character telling us in detail why the sex was actually totally consensual despite all the not-having-the-slightest-choice-in-the-matter going on. The very few stories I've seen the overdo it with consent are not nearly so aggravating for me. I might roll my eyes a bit if it's corny or out of place, but I'd never consider it something to complain to the author about. Too much creepiness saturating most romance and erotica for me to take even anvilicious consent for granted.

I dunno, it might not be fair, but it reminds me those unsettling folks who whine about how any explicit consent at all kills romance. If it isn't straight up "Surprise! I've penetrated you!" all the time, it's not hot. Eaargh.

Edited (added the bit at the end) 2014-07-19 04:56 (UTC)

I get you on the surprise dubcon, but the way OP worded the reader's complaint - 'it's "annoying" that everyone involved makes sure everyone else wants it' - made me think that there is a lot of repetition involved and that the consent issue is sticking out in the story as a PSA.

But it could be either way. It's just hard to tell without further clarification from the OP.

Re: That's... generally a GOOD thing

darkmanifest - 2014-07-19 08:36 (UTC) - Expand

Not only isn't it not fair, it's downright ignoring what people have actually said.

Re: That's... generally a GOOD thing

darkmanifest - 2014-07-19 08:37 (UTC) - Expand

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