[ SECRET POST #2776 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2776 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 085 secrets from Secret Submission Post #397.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

NS, NF, etc.

[ 1 - not!secrets ]

[(Anonymous)]

i agree

[(Anonymous)]

I think evil vs. evil is overdone, but I don't think it's as common as you think it is. Also, I don't think bitterness and cynicism is laziness, and I strongly disagree that bitterness and cynicism=evil. See: Sam Vimes.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Also, in a more extreme and much more complex way, Havelock Vetinari. For a man who saw the whole universe as evil-vs-evil (or at least bad-vs-bad) and then decided to be so spectacularly efficient in his own evil that he could drag a city (and then much of a continent) by its bootstraps out of corruption and into civilisation. I mean, cynical as all hell, but the 'evil' is really rather arguable, and he damn sure isn't lazy either way.

[(Anonymous)]

but what are your thoughts on the recent slew of good vs evil superhero movies?

[(Anonymous)]

Any "good" hero that resorts to necksnapping is not good. It comes to something when motherfucking Batman is closer to the light side than Superman. Not even the Adam West Superfriends Batman managed that.

[(Anonymous)]

That's one movie, and a subject that has been beaten into the ground. It's reached a point that people who haven't seen anything Superman-related, including the new movie, are complaining just because they heard about it. It's a pretty interesting example of how familiar the character is to so many people. Or it could just be everyone hopping a bandwagon.

[(Anonymous)]

You're using a single example from a single film.

Also, do you think any instance of killing at all makes a hero "not good," regardless of the context or of anything else they've done?

[cushlamochree]

Has it really replaced it? I've noticed a lot of things that are more nuanced, or that have flawed characters who are still good, or characters who aren't either good or bad, but I haven't noticed a lot of nihilistic things like you're apparently talking about here.

Also, I don't think that fiction that's about characters who are evil or morally weak is necessarily morally weak itself, and I don't think that cynicism or bitterness are intrinsically weak or evil.

[cure_light]

Oh, it isn't the trope's fault that it's popular and being used in a lazy way to make a quick buck. Just wait. Good vs Evil will come back around to popularity again someday and it will be used just as poorly.

[philippos42]

I like your icon. That's clever.

[(Anonymous)]

I blame Breaking Bad.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think cynical and bitter characters are necessarily evil, or that they're necessarily cultivating the nastier parts of their nature. Someone who's been beaten down time and again and knows they're not going to get a happy ending but still gets back up and says "no, screw that, I'm going to make this just a tiny bit better, or I'm going to die trying" isn't any less good than the knight in shining armor type who believes everything will turn out all right because good always triumphs over evil.

There's some Evil vs Evil stuff out there, and a lot more Morally Grey vs Evil, but the protagonist being cranky and cynical doesn't automatically slot a work into either of those categories.