Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2014-08-16 03:51 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2014-08-16 03:51 pm
[ SECRET POST #2783 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2783 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 069 secrets from Secret Submission Post #398.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - random pattern image ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
Re: I don't watch this show but...
(Anonymous) 2014-08-16 08:19 pm (UTC)(link)People still don't wear the same style of mustache as Hitler because it's too reminiscent of the Nazis. And this is an entire organization FOUNDED by them -- not facial hair.
I just don't see how they can successfully pull that off without causing Massive cognitive dissonance.
Re: I don't watch this show but...
(Anonymous) 2014-08-16 08:33 pm (UTC)(link)They don't use Nazi symbols.
They don't have a hard on for Hitler.
They have nothing to do with Germany or the Third Reich anymore.
They aren't Nazis.
In fact the current Hydra is more similar to the American government than the Nazis.
Re: I don't watch this show but...
(Anonymous) 2014-08-16 09:23 pm (UTC)(link)It's kind of funny that you mention that because a lot of the Nazis eugenics ideology was started in the US. Come full circle then?
But even so…like I pointed out with my mustache example, you can't exactly have a VERY direct tie to the Nazis and expect people to completely dissociate the two groups.
The Hitler 'stache was meant as a humorous example, but it perfectly illustrates this -- it's just facial hair. But wear it and everyone will DEFINITELY judge you.
Hydra can't call itself "Hydra" without having the massive associations with Nazi Germany.
I could understand your point a bit better if they reformed a new group and just stole Nazis technology or something.
But if they're still part of the same organization (an organization that was still active in the latest Captain America movie) then the ties are inextricable.
I mean, they were saying "Hail Hydra!" for goodness sake -- which is clearly based off Heil Hitler.
Re: I don't watch this show but...
(Anonymous) 2014-08-16 10:16 pm (UTC)(link)I think the difference is that the Hitler mustache is very clearly Nazi related. You cannot separate the two because Hitler very famously had the mustache, and was a Nazi. In-universe or in real life, this is fact and unmistakable.
With Hydra there are two points, as far as I can see:
1) It's fictional. Outside of movie-reality Hydra doesn't exist, and the only ties it has to the Nazis is what we're shown on the screen. In Cap I Hydra had already branched off the Nazis when we see them. Schmidt and his organization had already gone rough, so we're only ever really told that Hydra are Nazis, but never really shown. We never see any of the atrocities that Hydra supposedly committed, we just know they are the bad guys because they took those soldiers prisoner and because Red Skull was played by Hugo Weaving. They are the bad guys because they monologue and want to drop a bomb over New York, not because they committed Nazi crimes.
By Cap II the whole Nazi connection seems to have completely been forgotten, save for a few hilarious/dramatic "Heil Hydra"s.
2) In-universe, was it ever known that Captain America fought against Hydra? I was under the impression that the general public thought he fought regular Nazis, not some special science branch. So I could see why, especially with the events of Cap II bringing to light Hydras plans and machinations since WWII (which, while terrible, weren't typical Nazi ideology) I can see why a redemption could be possible in principle.
(That said I haven't watched Agents of SHIELD since the first few episodes, so I don't know if Ward has done something truly irredeemable. I'm just saying that I could see while the usual Nazi=no redemption rule could be different for movie!Hydra agents. I think in the comics the Nazi connection is more pronounced.)
Re: I don't watch this show but...
Re: I don't watch this show but...
(Anonymous) 2014-08-16 11:51 pm (UTC)(link)