[ SECRET POST #2790 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2790 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 069 secrets from Secret Submission Post #399.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[silvereriena]

Those are some good examples, OP. I get what you mean. Personally, I sometimes still use the term Mary Sue, but it really doesn't apply to the vast majority of female characters a lot of people think it does. My understanding has always been that a Sue was a female character who is pretty much there to be the embodiment of everything the viewer/reader could want to be with no consequences, so less of a character and more of a fantasy stand-in.

Although I'm not sure why you included Kate on the Sue side, even if her character was shittily written.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

You don't think Kate is a Mary Sue? I'd be interested to hear why not (genuinely interested; it's just hard not to sound antagonistic when disagreeing on a subject like the Mary Sue debate!)

For me I think she hit all the most important prerequisites of the term:

An original character inserted into the narrative for no good reason (ie, had no basis in the Robin Hood legends this show was based on) and made into a central character (like Poochie).

The love interest to three other male characters despite her bland/irritating personality. Like Bella Swan, she's basically treated as the most fascinating creature on earth, though there's nothing in the text to actually demonstrate this.

Treated as intrinsically important to the narrative even though her absence would have had no real effect on the story. Likewise, given a central role in the group dynamic despite being as useful as tits on a fish, and constantly being vindicated/justified in her stupid behaviour/opinions.

Incessantly talked up by other characters (she's called amazing, a good fighter, a treasure beautiful and compassion, ad nauseam).

Like Lana Lang's kung-fu, she had a weirdly fluctuating skill set - she was constantly getting kidnapped and wandering into danger (necessitating the other outlaws to rush to her rescue as though she was their #1 priority) whilst at other times possessing the ability to overpower grown men by poking them with her bare hands.

And again, much like Lana Lang, she's treated as the moral centre of the show who is always right, even though she demonstrates absolutely NO sense of compassion, kindness, honesty or even basic manners to any one around her.

SHE INVENTS CPR!

This, to me, makes her a Mary Sue - just like Lana Lang and Bella Swan.

Re: OP

[silvereriena]

Dang, it has been a while since I've seen this show. I think I didn't see her as one because I honestly did not remember any of these things about her, other than the fact that she annoyed me to death and was always yelling about everything. I do remember her being the love interest to more than one male character. I don't know if I'd really count Robin as a complete love interest, seeing as he never got over Marian and both Isabella and Kate were more rebounds than anything. It's clear he cared about her, but he didn't love her the way she loved him.

As for everything else you mentioned, I see your point. I must have blocked a lot of her scenes from my memory, wow.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know if I'd really count Robin as a complete love interest, seeing as he never got over Marian and both Isabella and Kate were more rebounds than anything. It's clear he cared about her, but he didn't love her the way she loved him.

Yeah, they did try for a saving throw in the final couple of episodes in which it's pretty obvious that Robin isn't all that into her, but at the same time the writers seemed to be trying to present Kate as "the perfect rebound" by favourably contrasting her to Isabella (the Madonna/Whore complex was strong with this one). And in the same episodes, they seemed to be setting up for an Archer/Kate romance.

I must have blocked a lot of her scenes from my memory, wow.

That's entirely understandable.