fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2795 ]

[ SECRET POST #2795 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2795 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Law & Order: Criminal Intent]

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[Fred Astaire/Ginger Rogers]

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[Jeeves and Wooster]

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[Yahtzee/Zero Punctuation]

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[Markiplier]

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[Jackie Chan Adventures]

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08.

[The Parent Trap]

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09.

[Alexander]

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[Starsky and Hutch]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 012 secrets from Secret Submission Post #399.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Inspired by a recent situation in which I was talking about work, and someone commented that it sounded like one of my bosses and one of my coworkers were being passive-aggressive with me. That confused the hell out of me because I always thought they were perfectly nice - the boss is just as introverted and socially awkward as I am and kind of a perfectionist at times, and as such corrects us on smaller details frequently (and given that we're a major tourist destination, it's pretty justifiable, too). Meanwhile, one of my coworkers has made a few mistakes that led to both of us getting written up, but seeing as those mistakes were all in the same 'area' (namely mixing up times for things), I never saw it as any kind of attempt to sabotage me - just someone who doesn't do well with clocks when they're in a rush or under pressure (same way I don't always do well with small talk with customers, we all have our weak points).

I was thinking about that, ended up being reminded of an old thread in fandom way, way back, where someone mentioned having replied to an annoying review with a very passive-aggressive reply, but when I looked at it, it seemed perfectly nice to me - which surprised the person who left it, as they were definitely being "maliciously polite".

I've also had incidents in the past where people would say that someone was being passive-aggressive to me, when I thought they were being perfectly nice. Similarly, I've been called passive-aggressive in situations where I was just being a little overly-formal but otherwise polite, both in real life and online. I don't do passive-aggressive (I just do aggressive-aggressive), so this always confuses the hell out of me.

What exactly is passive-aggressive, and why bother doing it if you intend for both you and the 'receiving' party to know that there is malicious intent on your part? How do you tell it apart from being polite or formal or whatever? Because apparently I don't know how to tell apart passive-aggressive for formal/polite, unless "any form of criticism or negative comment is passive-aggressive", which...how do you criticize someone without being passive-aggressive, if you mean well/just have to correct them as part of a related duty or whatever (i.e. work, editing, etc.)?

I am so confused, right now.

Go on youtube and watch a couple of clips of Marie Barone from Everybody Loves Raymond. She is the absolute epitome of passive-aggressiveness. ;)

Hmmm, I've never really thought about it. It's one of those things I know when I see it, but I'm not sure how to actually define it. I'm curious now what other people will say.

I define it as not confronting a problem directly, but then manipulating/punishing/tking it out on a person in smaller and subtler ways.

So where would "correcting someone a lot" fall into that? Because my boss does that with me and I've done that with other people, but my boss seems very nice about it and I know I mean well when I do that with other people, but I've been called passive-aggressive and one of my friends said my boss sounds passive-aggressive. I've gotten the impression that correcting anyone on anything is somehow passive-aggressive, but that seems like overreacting/not quite right.

I do not think it is passive-agressive in itsef, though some passive-agressive people use correcting as masked criticism that is basically malicious.

If you feel neither of you are, then chances are that the person calling you that might be recognizing it as part of a pattern of someone else they know, even if your motivations are completely different. If that makes sense.

It does, but just to make sure I'm interpreting it right: because they've been passive-aggressively criticized a lot (by someone who was doing so maliciously), they assume all criticism or just a lot of criticism is the same thing, even when it's not?

That would be my guess, yes.

Imo, it's being agressive passively... looking to get a reaction without being actively confrontational or openly provoking.
Like telling their roommate to clean and then slowly picking up stuff sighing loudly.
Or saying that someone looks tired in a tone of fake symphathy - in effect telling that this someone looks not at all great.
Telling someone embarassing childhood stories with a benighn look because they are pissed about something the other person had done.

So sabotaging your work would be an actively harmfull thing and not a passive agressive thing. But maybe definitions vary. *shrugs*

If I want something cleaned up, then I get impatient and starting cleaning it myself, I don't see how that would be malicious or "passively aggressive". That's "I need this place clean, and if you won't do it I will". If I'm really irritated about it, I'll...confront them directly about it. Is that passive-aggressive? If so, how the hell would you clean something up without it being passive-aggressive, if you've already asked someone to clean it and they don't? The only way I can see is for you to wait until they leave, but that isn't always going to happen anytime soon, so...

And how do you tell apart fake sympathy from real sympathy? I used to think it was obvious but I am increasingly unsure. o.O

I'm just not sure what to do with that last one. People tell embarrassing past stories all the time for fun, so I'm not sure how to tell when it's being done out of anger...?

The key with a p-a cleaning is doing it in a demonstrative fashion looking to get a reaction. Like "I need to guilt them into doing it". Intent matters I think. This hepothetical untidy roommate would notice the p-a because of a frown, irritated movements and too loud sighs. Or a stony silence, that works too.

Well, telling someone 'Poor you, are you seek?'
And the other answers: 'No. Oo'
And the first one goes: 'Oh maybe you just didn't get enough sleep'
The person: ':('
In the above there's no way the symphathy was genuene! Usually it's all in the intonation and a subtext. Like do these people even like each other?

For ex., A forgot the B's Birthday. B isquietly fuming. They go to see friends. B tells all the embarassing stories looking at A from time to time. A grits teeth and tries to interupt the flow politely. The friends are oblivious.

It's making snide comments about a problem instead of addressing it directly. I'll give you an example from my life.

A towel in a shared bathroom of my house had fallen off the hook and no one had picked it up. I hadn't even noticed that it had fallen. Instead of picking it up herself or asking the rest of us (there are 4 of us) to be more aware or something, she kept asking, "Does that towel need to be thrown away? It's on the floor and no one has picked it up."

I considered passive-aggressiveness to be an insult wrapped in a bow and presented as a gift.

As for the reason for it, in some cases it's cultural. I am currently living in NC where Southern culture dictates that it is rude and ghastly to be directing insulting and aggressive. It's just not how it is done here. If you are going to be aggressive, you must be passive-aggressive. An indirect snide comment coupled with a buffer like "Bless her/his/its heart" is considered the correct form of how to insult someone.

Do I like it? Oh, hell no. The town I grew up in was filled with out of towners, mostly northerners where passive-aggressiveness was considered far more rude than directly insulting someone. So, I have that mentality. When I moved here I grew to hate passive-aggressiveness. Jesus, how do I hate it. If you are going to insult me, say it to my face. Don't act like you paid me a compliment.

If it's just cultural differences behind what is and isn't passive-aggressive, that would explain a lot, actually.

It might be that a lot of people misuse "passive aggressive" as a synonym for "indirect". I.e., leaving a note for your roommate is not inherently passive aggressive. It could be from conflicting schedules, being intimidated by confrontation, whatever. PA is when someone says "gee, I sure wish someone would do the dishes" or just not doing dishes themselves to make you mad and punish you with fruit flies to force you to do them. PA is about using passivity in place of aggression.

I've gotten accused of being passive aggressive for being polite, too. I think it was just a perspective thing. I'm not a confrontational person, and I have this whole etiquette persona, and some people think I'm being insincere or facetious. American culture (probably other places, but I can't speak for them) (also, I'm pretty sure I remember you being USian, so sorry if I got that wrong) doesn't value public etiquette in the same way it used to. These days, people don't generally care as long as you're not outright rude. Which is fine, but it leads to etiquette-focused people being snooty/PA/etc. Sorry, went on a bit of a rant there.

So, yeah, I don't think your coworkers are necessarily passive aggressive. They might be, but I think it's more that direct people don't always see indirectness as and equal quality, and vice versa.

This also explains a lot, thank you. :)

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[ SECRET POST #2795 ]

How do you define passive aggressive?

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