fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #339 ]

⌈ Secret Post #339 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

1. General note: Don't use 10pix.com.
2. People have been submitting secrets to the Suggestions post instead of the Submissions post. Like four or five of them. Make sure to double-check you're posting in the right place!

Secrets Left to Post: 08 pages, 200 secrets from Secret Submission Post #049.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 ] broken links, [ 1 2 ] not!secrets, 0 not!fandom, [ 1 ] repeat.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Tuesday, December 11th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

And I can't stand people like you, who call characters with genuine issues "emo" just because they act like real fucking people with real fucking problems, then bitch about how they're horrible characters and worse people because they didn't handle their issues by becoming a saint or a shounen hero. ♥

Edited 2007-12-10 22:50 (UTC)

I don't want to talk about "emo" because the word admittedly has no meaning in this context, but preferring characters who choose to deal with their problems in a positive way seems fairly legitimate to me.

It's one thing to simply prefer characters like that. I don't take issue with that, but...when people start going on about how "emo boys" suck for struggling to deal with their problems (usually in a manner that's pretty damned realistic), and how characters who react to their troubles by becoming nice and pleasant and etc etc etc are so much better...that bugs the hell out of me. :/

That's just what I'm saying though. If you take away all the labeling and badmouthing, what they're essentially saying is that they like character A better than character B because A deals with his issues more effectively than B does -- which kind of implies that the person thinks A is better than B for possessing that quality, and finds it annoying when others make excuses for B. It's not something you agree with, I can see, but I think it's a reasonable way of thinking. Bundles of dysfuctions don't do it for everyone.

Edited 2007-12-10 23:19 (UTC)

...well, yeah, if you take away all the labeling and badmouthing, sure. If the secret had been, "Everyone seems to like these messed-up, dysfunctional characters, but I really like this guy and how much better he handled his issues, and I wish I had more people to share that with," I'd have gone "meh" and ignored it.

But the fact is that the labeling and badmouthing is there, and it typifies an attitude towards both characters and people that I find unsympathetic and shallow.

Edit: Also, it didn't help that both of the characters listed as examples of "emo boys that aren't as cool as my favorite character" have some of the best and most realistic development in popular fandom today, regardless of how annoying their attitudes and actions can be, so dismissing them that way made me roll my eyes particularly hard.

Edited 2007-12-10 23:25 (UTC)

Uh, I was going add a tag-on to that previous reply that the OP's tone, while not the most respectful, doesn't necessarily seem like badmouthing in the strictest sense. Emo is used nebulously these days, more like an expression of annoyance in most cases. That's just how I read it.

That's... a matter of interpretation, but I won't go into it. And even if a person doesn't debunk a character's growth throughout the series, it's still entirely possible for them to prefer (again, prefer) someone who started off on the right foot to begin with.

I actually find the characters the OP favors boring as hell, and more often than not end up rolling my eyes and groaning at them. I prefer the maladjusted characters because they're flawed and human. Watching them trip over themselves a few times before they finally get it right? Makes the moment when they do deal with their issues positively that much more awesome.

I think if Zuko had given Ozai that "fuck you" speech back in season 2, it wouldn't have been nearly so "OH MY GOD YES!"

On the other hand, I really do hate it when Zuko fans refuse to acknowledge that the boy has ever made a mistake just because he has daddy issues. Because dude, much as I like him? I spent most of the series headdesking and yelling "OH GOD YOU STUPID, STUPID BOY!" at the TV.

Agreed. Sometimes I do like the "been through terrible things but come out awesome" characters, but that tends to be the rare instance when they're done well. Most of the time, you instead wind up with characters who come off as annoyingly unrealistic and often preachy (i.e., Naruto in his worst moments).

I haven't been in Avatar fandom long--I started watching a couple weeks back and am up to early season two--so I haven't seen much of the fandom. I'll grant you that fans often turn characters like that into perfect brooding badasses who have never made a mistake ever, when they're so much more believable and interesting when you view them as the flawed, stumbling dorks they really are, and that bugs me too.

Word sauce. Naruto himself is the reason I never got into that series. I couldn't stomach him. He was like a WAY more annoying version of Luffy.

I think the only character like that which I've ever liked -- as opposed to hated or tolerated -- is Raki from Claymore. Thrown out of his village because his brother was eaten/possessed by Yoma, witnessed all kinds of horrific shit while traveling with Clare, yet he's still sweet and idealistic without being preachy at all.

Plus, he's a HUGE part of Clare's characterization; her attachment to him keeps her heart human, and allows her to return even after she's past her yoki limit.

I managed to tolerate Naruto by going "meh, it's shounen hero syndrome," but more and more he kind of paled in comparison with the better-developed characters. Especially later on. :/

Yeah, I think Raki manages to avoid being preachy by virtue of not being the hero. He's along for the ride, and even if he resents it sometimes, he kind of knows it. His humble attitude (at least compared to a lot of other, similar characters) makes it touching rather than "oh, no, here we go again" when he tries to be all fierce for Clare's sake.

Naruto: What deterred me from watching past the third episode is that since it's shounen and titled after the lead male, I know the series will pretty much revolve around him, and I'll be skipping 2/3 of each episode anyway.

Raki: I agree. He knows full well that in her line of work, he's a liability more than anything else. Unless he has a specific reason to interfere, he generally doesn't. He knows his place, even if he hates having to sit it out and wait on a pressure plate for Clare to come back.

Which makes the times he does get involved feel more genuine than like a thinly-veiled lecture.

I... Actually never mentioned that either Zuko or Sasuke were "horrible characters" or "worse people." The entire point of my post was I'm just not a fan of that type of character, and don't see their appeal. I do like Hyakkimaru (the third, very little known character), who had a helluva lot more issues than Zuko or Sasuke, and yes, handled them much better. No, that doesn't make him a better character in general. It just makes him a better, more appealing character to me.

Please, don't twist my words around, and accuse me of something I didn't do. If you honestly think I was going for that, I apologize, because I really wasn't.

And thus, why this opinion of mine is a secret. Misunderstandings. >_<

I'm sorry for reacting like that, then. The implications in your secret reminded me too much of the many, many fans who will rail about how horrible Sasuke is while holding up characters like Naruto as examples of the proper way to do things, and I went off on them rather than you. I should have been more careful to just see what you were saying rather than what it reminded me of.

[ SECRET POST #339 ]

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