[ SECRET POST #2799 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2799 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 058 secrets from Secret Submission Post #400.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[lunabee34]

I feel a bit hesitant to comment since I see most everyone posting in the thread seems to dislike Xander, but I really like his character and I don't agree that the narrative glosses over his flaws.

I think the whole cast of characters are generally likable people, each with at least one pretty glaring flaw (with the possible exception of Tara, who it's hard for me find a single negative about).

I think Xander dislikes Angel for a variety of reasons, one of them being that he likes Buffy. I think Xander is also wary of Angel because he's a vampire, he's shrouded in secrecy, and he has trust issues. Why should he believe Angel when he says he's a good guy? In season two, when Xander lies to Buffy, it's a horrible, horrible moment for his character (and I believe he wants Angel dead, not so that he won't be with Buffy, but because Angelus has just gone around killing everyone, and he's afraid for himself and his friends), and the show leaves it alone for five whole seasons. When they do return to it, the moment is so poignant for me, and it absolutely the show calling Xander on what he did. It's an acknowledgement that he wants the out for Anya that Buffy never got for Angel. It's unexpected and that much more hard hitting for me. I am also a fan of characters not knowing things that other characters know or that the audience knows, so YMMV on that one, but it was a satisfying call-back to me.

When Xander cheats on Cordelia he is 100% portrayed as being in the wrong, and what he does costs him what is arguably his best relationship and threatens his relationship with his closest and oldest friend.

When Xander leaves Anya at the altar (and boy did I hate that storyline), he's 100% shown as being wrong. Even when he discovers that the future shown for him is a fake, he is still so afraid of becoming that person, of hurting Anya, of becoming his father, that he walks away from marriage rather than risk it. That is a broken person and a fearful person and a pitiful person.

I don't think Xander always makes wise choices, but I think he is mostly a good and loyal friend.

I'm hoping Tabaqui will show up in this thread; she's probably got some good Xander apologia in her!

[(Anonymous)]

I think Xander is also wary of Angel because he's a vampire, he's shrouded in secrecy, and he has trust issues.

IDK, he didn't seem to have any problems dating Anya, and unlike Angel, she didn't show a shred of repentance for the things she did as a vengeance demon.

[lunabee34]

But I think this is also part of the whole things that happen to you are different than when they happen to other people. It's a long arc, but the narrative calls him on that, too--on what happens when you choose to fall in love with or ally yourself with someone who has done terrible things.

[(Anonymous)]

How does the narrative call him on it? Yes, The Lie was brought up again, six seasons after it was told, and it went unfinished and unacknowledged. And through the whole scene where he was arguing with Buffy not to kill Anya, not once did he acknowledge the utter and total irony of switching positions with Buffy. Not once did he apologize and recognize the position she was in, the position he was going through himself. That's not the narrative calling him on it, that's just the show acknowledging that they trolled the message boards.

[lunabee34]

Sorry; I missed this comment somehow.

The narrative calling him on it doesn't mean that he has to acknowledge that what he did was wrong and apologize for it; it means the other characters in the show and we as viewers see that he's behaving hypocritically and asking Buffy to do for Anya what he wasn't willing to do for Angel. From the point of view of the show, Xander is wrong even if he himself doesn't verbally acknowledge that. IDK, that was a really powerful moment for me in the show but clearly YMMV.

[(Anonymous)]

I think people forget that Xander doesn't just hate Angel for dating Buffy, but he hates him because he's a vampire. In the very first episode of the show, his best friend in the world is turned into a vampire, and then has to be dusted. After that he's had a much bigger problem with vampires than the rest of the group, and you can't blame him too much for that. Doesn't mean he hasn't been an asshole about it, but it's not all about wanting to sleep with Buffy, and it explains why he's more okay with Anya's past as a demon than Angel being a vampire.

[(Anonymous)]

I always thought killing Jesse by mistake was a part of it, or at least should have been more because the so-called best friend was forgotten after an episode. It made sense that Xander would hate Angel, a vampire not killed and supposingly good when his friend had been an evil vampire who was unmourned.

[lunabee34]

Yes! I agree, and that's a concept the fandom ran with.

I think the show in general did a very bad job of overtly letting character death continue to influence the character's actions/thoughts/etc. Joyce and Tara are the obvious exceptions, but I have never been happy with the way Jenny Calendar's death wasn't a part of the story for longer, and I feel the same about Jesse.