[ SECRET POST #2804 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2804 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 064 secrets from Secret Submission Post #401.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - unrelated .gifs ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

keep the political climate in mind

Well that's nice and vague. Not all of us were around in 1979, you know.

[(Anonymous)]

Harvey Milk was assassinated the year before the movie was released -- an openly gay politician in San Francisco. His killer only spent a couple of years in jail because of the now-infamous "Twinkie Defense."

[(Anonymous)]

It wasn't a "twinkie defense". They mentioned twinkies like once. The defense was that he shot Milk and Moscone because he was severely mentally unbalanced, which he was.

But setting that aside, what does that imply about Star Trek: The Motion Picture to you?

[(Anonymous)]

DA

um

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinkie_defense

that is the actual term, nonny

[(Anonymous)]

i'm aware it's the actual term. what i'm saying is that it's an inaccurate term and essentially an urban legend that had little to do with the actual trial of Dan White.

[(Anonymous)]

ok, it sounds real pretentious and forced-stupid to be like "that's not what it actualfax was!" when someone uses the term. it's like asking someone who calls someone else a "faggot" and informing him it's a bundle of sticks. you knew what they meant, don't be facetious

[(Anonymous)]

i don't know. to me, it pretty much read like they were using it in the very specific context of the actual trial. not as like, a general reference or term being used in a different context. they're talking about the actual trial of Dan White and in that context, it's an inaccurate narrative of what happened. i'm not being facetious and i'm not being intentionally obtuse (and hopefully not unintentionally obtuse). it's just not correct.

[(Anonymous)]

except that's what it was actual historically in real life trufax called, in the very specific context of the actual trial. did you not see them use quotation marks to actually quote people or what?

[(Anonymous)]

DA

It's "a catchall term coined by reporters during their coverage of the trial of defendant Dan White for the murders of San Francisco city supervisor Harvey Milk and mayor George Moscone." I don't know what else you want when people are using the exactly correct term.

[(Anonymous)]

for people not to be wrong? i guess?

it was a catchall term that became popular in the press, but it wasn't accurate for what actually happened in the trial, and since they were specifically talking about the trial...

[(Anonymous)]

Meaning that I don't think it's fair to criticize Gene Roddenberry for queerbaiting when there was likely no way he could have feasibly included a LGBT character in 1979. When people were still being assassinated (and not just famous politicians, but also regular people were being assaulted, discriminated against, and worse), I don't think it's fair to describe it the way you would a creator in 2014 "teasing" fans about a slash ship to keep (mostly female) viewers interested. Those creators have a far greater ability to make that canon -- so in their case, it IS queerbaiting. But not in 1979.

It's like how people talk shit about Kirk and Uhura's kiss in Plato's Stepchildren because it was forced. BECAUSE THAT WAS THE ONLY GODDAMN WAY TO GET IT PAST THE CENSORS. It wasn't perfect, but criticizing the people behind it, who were fighting tooth and nail to have EVEN THAT, doesn't take into account the context of the times at all.

[(Anonymous)]

Harvey Milk wasn't killed because he was gay, though. He was killed because Dan White was a mentally unbalanced person who blamed Milk and Moscone for the loss of his job.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know about that…

I understand that the "Twinkie Defense" was largely media sensationalism, but I don't believe that homophobia had no role in the assassination:

"In a thoughtful essay about San Francisco's "wild, manic depressive swings," and "its not very well-hidden undercurrents," the day after the verdict, Chronicle columnist Herb Caen remarked about the police support for Dan White and their "dislike (understatement) of homosexuals." In an offhand remark, he added that one attorney was calling it "the Twinkie insanity defense."

The guy only got a couple of years in jail for murdering a politician...

[(Anonymous)]

he only got a couple of years because he was, again, mentally unbalanced.

you can make an argument that there was underlying homophobia in the San Francisco establishment, and certainly in the San Francisco police force there was, but that's something separate from the assassination itself, and i would argue separate to a large extent from the trial. those undercurrents existed in politics and the assassination brought them out in many ways, but they weren't the central cause of it.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, it's not like there are any easily available resources to help someone figure this shit out without acting like a pissy brat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_in_LGBT_rights

[(Anonymous)]

what is google? what is education? :O

omg you guys

[(Anonymous)]

I was being sarcastic.

Re: omg you guys

[(Anonymous)]

Wow, I was going to give you a pass for being ignorant, but there's no excuse for being bad at sarcasm. Leave F!S, anon, and never come back.

Re: omg you guys

[(Anonymous)]

Re: omg you guys

[(Anonymous)]

LOL
(Some people on fs seem to be way too serious, don't worry.)

Re: omg you guys

[(Anonymous)]

Leave F!S, anon, and never come back.

I read that in Smeagol's voice, and it's awesome! XD

Re: omg you guys

[fingalsanteater]

OMFG. That makes this thread 100 times better.

Re: omg you guys

[(Anonymous)]

Gone, gone, gone! Smeagol is free!!!

Re: omg you guys

[nan]

I read it in Scar's voice.

Re: omg you guys

[(Anonymous)]

Charlie... you can never come back! You can never come back!