fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2821 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2821 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[Twin Peaks]

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03.

[Star Trek]

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04.

[Fall Out Boy]

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05.

[Monster]

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06.

[Left 4 Dead 2/Grand Theft Auto 5]

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07.

[Cabin Pressure]

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08.

[Quantum Leap]

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09.

[Amy Winehouse]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 036 secrets from Secret Submission Post #403.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Agreed 100%. I think it also applies to other works by Urasawa as well - at least I remember liking Kanna and most of the other female characters in 20th Century Boys.

Gahhhh Urasawa is so awesome. Why can't all the other writers be more like him?

Huh, my general impression is that Urasawa isn't very good at women. There are a few good ones in Monster (like Nina) but my most vivid impression is of the horribly shrewish fiancee in the early chapters.

I mean, he's a good writer but being a talented writer and being inclusive about female characters aren't necessarily the same thing.

WHAT?!

Eva? But I love her! I mean, yes, she seems horrible and shrewish in the early chapters but that's why she's so great. She develops SOOOOOOO much and has such depth. By the end she is one of my ABSOLUTE favorite characters. I thought she would be horrible throughout but she was given a great focus and felt like a real person with real problems.

I think I read 13 volumes of it and I don't recall her developing at all...and hey, I'm happy if it improved.

I like her especially towards the end! Here's hoping you'll warm up to her! :D

The shrewish fiance was bad, I agree with that, especially in the early going. Although I think I can see how Urasawa got there, the depiction was not good.

I agree with what you're saying in that I don't think Urasawa is someone who is intentionally being inclusive with writing female characters. But I do think he often ends up writing decent female characters, simply by virtue of being a really good writer who sometimes writes about female characters. It's really hard for me to look at Nina in Monster and, again, Kanna in 20th Century Boy, and how central they are to the plot, and think those aren't good female characters.

Edited 2014-09-23 23:08 (UTC)

But she had real flaws!

Flaws that she worked past and grew out of.

I love Eva. Why does everyone hate her? Yes, she wasn't great in the beginning but isn't that the point?

Because the ways she's flawed, and the way those flaws are depicted, especially early on in the story, come way, way, way too close to being a sexist caricature. Even if she's supposed to be terrible, I think her portrayal there is almost cartoonishly so. It's just not great. Her progression is good, but I don't think it's enough to redeem the character.

Yeah, if I wasn't clear, I haven't finished either Monster or 20th Century Boys and part of the issue was that they both seemed like such male-fests. I don't think Kanna had been much of a figure in however many volumes of 20CB I read but somebody else told me that about her too. I will have to get back to both these series at some point and hearing that the women get better as they go along is encouraging.

20th Century Boys is a bit strange in terms of plot structure. It changes a ton over the course of the story - a lot of major shit goes down. So it takes Kanna a while to show up but once she does she's absolutely a major character.

I also definitely think it's worth seeing the whole thing through. It's long and it can be kind of a slog at times, especially with Urasawa's attitude towards mysteries and plot revelations, but I think it's completely worth it because gosh it's good.

I really loved 20th Century Boys, but at the end I can say that I think it was actually too long. There were about 5 plot twists too many, and some things that just got dragged through the mud - like that Friend thing. Let me tell you, after 100 or so chapters I did not give a damn who he was, I just wanted somebody to shoot him in the head and be done.

It's like... it's a really good series, and there's a lot of stuff I liked about it, and hell the characters were written SO well (yes Kanna was amazing in every way) and the art is also spectacular. But in the same breath it's hard for me to say that I truly liked it, or that I would want to own it.

I definitely know what you mean. Personally, I actually really liked that - I felt like it fit in with the insane conspiratorial tone the whole work has, the layers within layers and the paranoia and the difficulty of finding the truth. But I completely understand how someone could dislike the length, and I think my reaction is probably the weird one tbh.

I guess…I just felt that it was so well done (she was SO very different by the end) that Urasawa was doing a bait and switch -- making us think she's this pathetic one-dimensional stereotype when she isn't at all.

He did such a great job with Nina too…

Maybe I'm just being too optimistic though.

No, I think it's a fair position to take, just not sure I agree.

And just to be clear, I absolutely love Urasawa on the whole. He's one of my favorite writers. And Nina is absolutely fantastic.

I read the first two volumes and Eva was so terribly written (and there were no other major female characters) that I completely quit. I don't hate her, I dislike the writing. It was really surprising to see this secret and now I'm thinking about trying again. Where do the other female characters come in/Eva gets less of a caricature?

Nina Liebert's the major female character in Monster. I believe she actually shows up in the second volume (all volumes are IIRC and I haven't reread it in a while, so grain of salt) - she's Anna Liebert, the twin sister Johann is trying to contact - but she's not really a major character yet there, she's more of a witness that Tenma is trying to find and protect. She shows up again in the 4th volume, I think, and takes on a much more active role, and keeps showing up recurrently in different arcs from there. Eva's redemption starts to come in around volume 15, I believe, and continues from there to the end of the series.

Tenma's always the main character, but it does get better in that regard, especially with Nina. There's other secondary characters as well that OP is referring to. I'd say it's worth pushing on just a bit, but then again I also completely love Monster so I'm hardly an unbiased source.

[ SECRET POST #2821 ]

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